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James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

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Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#241

Post by fzeroracer »

ng12 wrote: post #49
thenayr wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hacker news is every bit as full of misogynistic assholes as reddit/4chan, they all worship Paul Graham who basically has the same world view as Damore.

I don't know, I'm pretty liberal and I find political discussions on HN to be overbearing at times.

There are definitely some issues still on HN; I've had to argue with people here that think gay people don't deserve the right to get married and I've noticed people instantly downvoted into oblivion for mentioning that they're trans.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#242

Post by DoofusOfDeath »

beebmam wrote: post #209
paulgb wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the quote you pulled not saying the same thing as this from Damore's memo? > I’m simply stating that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men and women differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences may explain why we don’t see equal representation of women in tech and leadership. Edit: ebbv beat me to it

Let's not forget that the metrics for "ability", especially in a field like software engineering, are highly unscientific. People barely have any idea about how to hire a software engineer, much less judge someone's true "ability". Preferences are also very complicated. People may prefer things very differently given the environment. That quote, along with many others, demonstrates the absolute lack of genuineness on…

> Preferences are also very complicated. People may prefer things very differently given the environment. That quote, along with many others, demonstrates the absolute lack of genuineness on the part of Damore.

I'm not sure how you get from (1) his logic seems flawed, to (2) he's being disingenuous. Can you please elaborate?

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#243

Post by [deleted] »

MollyR wrote: post #233
john_moscow wrote: post #87

He doesn't have a choice really. With the PR mess he got himself into, no big company will ever hire him. Imagine the possible headlines "Microsoft hires the James Damore, the male supremacy advocate fired from Google". Nope, regardless the technical skill or his actual personality, his public image is forever ruined. So he realistically has a choice between becoming a paid speaker for fringe ultra-right organization…

I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a fast 7 figure settlement. Conservatives/Populists groups are literally salivating for discovery to nail google on other things. EDIT: Also reminder some googlers kept politically motivated blacklists, if those blacklists were on company computers, Google will be hammered for it. Discovery could go wrong for Google in a million ways. https://www.inc.com/sonya-mann/google-manifesto-…

[deleted]

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#244

Post by saint_fiasco »

jgh wrote: post #180
john_moscow wrote: post #87

He doesn't have a choice really. With the PR mess he got himself into, no big company will ever hire him. Imagine the possible headlines "Microsoft hires the James Damore, the male supremacy advocate fired from Google". Nope, regardless the technical skill or his actual personality, his public image is forever ruined. So he realistically has a choice between becoming a paid speaker for fringe ultra-right organization…

I notice none of those options include "admit he was wrong and apologize". I'm sure he doesn't have to work for a top-tier tech company either.

Has that worked in the past?

I've never made a fuckup of nearly the same magnitude, but the times I made a mistake in public apologizing always made things worse.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#245

Post by freyir »

eeks wrote: post #219
thenayr wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, you know, he could realize what a monumental fuck up he made and try and make a difference for the better. The dude literally let himself be paraded around by the alt-right and neo-nazi groups as a hero. -----------EDIT below--------------- Zero sympathy for this dirtbag. He's un-hireable because he deserves to be. Future advice for Damore wannabees When alt-right Twitter agrees with your world-views, you're doin…

That's the spirit. Let's make people un-hireable not based on their skills but on their personal opinions. 0% chance that that would backfire.

Skills matter. Personal opinions matter, too, when you broadcast them to an entire company.

Stop with the false dilemma; it's not an either/or choice between acceptable skills and acceptable behavior.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#246

Post by jrs95 »

jgh wrote: post #180
john_moscow wrote: post #87

He doesn't have a choice really. With the PR mess he got himself into, no big company will ever hire him. Imagine the possible headlines "Microsoft hires the James Damore, the male supremacy advocate fired from Google". Nope, regardless the technical skill or his actual personality, his public image is forever ruined. So he realistically has a choice between becoming a paid speaker for fringe ultra-right organization…

I notice none of those options include "admit he was wrong and apologize". I'm sure he doesn't have to work for a top-tier tech company either.

Do you actually think that would get him anywhere?

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#247

Post by vorotato »

ebbv wrote: post #187
endorphone wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a conservative (far from it), but I think it's a ridiculous misrepresentation. He spoke to the distribution of preferences and abilities. Turning this into an absolutist simplification should offend anyone with a brain. The science seems to state that nature rolls the dice more with males than with females. We know, for instance, that there are far more very low IQ males than females, and this is understood a…

Really? You think I’m gonna fall for this b.s.? You just tried to cloak the claim that there’s more highly intelligent men in a bunch of nonsense. You’re only proving my point.

Also someone doesn't have to be a conservative to be sexist so... In fact many conservatives I know aren't sexist.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#248

Post by vowelless »

john_moscow wrote: post #87

He doesn't have a choice really. With the PR mess he got himself into, no big company will ever hire him. Imagine the possible headlines "Microsoft hires the James Damore, the male supremacy advocate fired from Google". Nope, regardless the technical skill or his actual personality, his public image is forever ruined. So he realistically has a choice between becoming a paid speaker for fringe ultra-right organization…

This is true. If the memo wasn't enough, him immediately going to right wing YouTubers like Stefan Molyneux, Jordan Peterson, Mike cernovich, Joe Rogan, Dave Rubin, Steven Crowder, etc. is suspicious. [1]

Generally I wouldn't have minded if he went to right wing outlets, as long as he had also gone to left wing outlets. I was willing to listen to his reasoning. But it became clear after the memo came out that he didn't engage with left wingers and maybe he was indeed just appealing to the right.

[1] I don't want to use "right wing" in a disparaging way. I think classical liberalism is perhaps right of center today. I think some of the right wing narratives make sense, but with big caveats. The far right is just a slip away, though. And they would hunt people like me down...

Edit: I don't mean right wing in a disparaging way. I enjoy Joe Rogan (his interviews with NDT and Lawrence Krause are a lot of fun), Dave Rubin (his interview with Faisal is fantastic) and Jordan Peterson. But they are clearly classical liberal, which is arguably right of center today.

Maybe I was extreme in saying far right is just a slip away. I think similar things can happen on the left too of course. Let just not go to the "far-*"...

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#249

Post by jimrandomh »

This clearly is (or is going to be) a Demon Thread. https://www.lesserwrong.com/posts/BZtAavpsy9WtMYgEL/demon-th... . People seem to be angry about what was said in the past, but don't agree on what was actually said or what those things meant. Attempts to clarify seem to mostly be throwing fuel on the fire instead. None of this is helping.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#250

Post by ddlsmurf »

comicjk wrote: post #192
thenayr wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, you know, he could realize what a monumental fuck up he made and try and make a difference for the better. The dude literally let himself be paraded around by the alt-right and neo-nazi groups as a hero. -----------EDIT below--------------- Zero sympathy for this dirtbag. He's un-hireable because he deserves to be. Future advice for Damore wannabees When alt-right Twitter agrees with your world-views, you're doin…

He also lied about having a PhD (he was in a program, but did not finish). This makes it difficult for me to take him seriously as someone motivated by an insistent search for truth.

source please (as in when he lied) ?
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