Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

quora.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 411 posts

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#241

Post by havetocharge »

tptacek wrote: post #71

I was going to add this as a reply to a comment downthread but I think it's too important to bury. The fundamental rule of career progression in the technology industry is to position yourself as a domain expert in something more specific than "programming" . It's very difficult to "own" "programming" in a way where you can use scarcity to drive integer multiple increases of the median salary. It is not as difficult…

Thanks fo sharing. Just wanted to comment that while generalists do not get outlandish compensation offers, they are more likely to qualify for a wider set of jobs. In a way, it is a different strategy in the employment game: you go for a less risky bet than specializing in something, and by that increase the chances of being employed.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#242

Post by Fraztastic »

I don't know if anyone here has exposure to the recruiting side of things. Friends who have worked recruiting for Facebook have told me of very blatant and direct age discrimination for the older set; regardless of their talent & experience. It's not "dead-end" but there are certainly issues.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#243

Post by vvanders »

jsolson wrote: post #224
tptacek wrote: post #71

I was going to add this as a reply to a comment downthread but I think it's too important to bury. The fundamental rule of career progression in the technology industry is to position yourself as a domain expert in something more specific than "programming" . It's very difficult to "own" "programming" in a way where you can use scarcity to drive integer multiple increases of the median salary. It is not as difficult…

I cannot agree with this enough. I'm a pretty capable "generalist software engineer", but what keeps me employed is expertise in virtualization and high-performance virtual networking. Prior to that, it was expertise in distributed systems and a knack for debugging distributed failures. The history here is relevant: later in the thread Thomas points out that you can switch domains. My time spent in distributed system…

Yup, totally.

There's a pretty common trend in GameDev -> Embedded Systems | High-Speed Trading.

The skillsets are very similar while the domains are quite different.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#244

Post by seanmcdirmid »

tptacek wrote: post #101
jordanb wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big danger is "owning" some domain that falls out of fashion. You might "own" distributed systems and do great for a time, but then companies start transitioning from that architecture and nobody returns your calls anymore. Also I've noticed a lot of sub-fields like computer vision or self driving cars where there's a great deal of nerd interest but very little actual employment. In fact, I have a feeling that co…

You can switch domains.

By sinking your precious time invests sure. But you won’t be able to claim you have 20 years of experience in X anymore, you will be a newbie for awhile. That, and your PhD is already in something else...your papers are already published in other conferences....it can be a problem trying to move from say PL to ML.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#245

Post by danjoc »

HN15718653 wrote: post #106
danjoc wrote: post #63

Ageism is more than hiring young. It's letting people go or burning them out as they age too. These companies expect excessive overtime until people burn out. As developers and IT staff age, they self select out of it, because it isn't healthy. https://www.quora.com/How-many-hours-a-week-does-a-typical-G... "10am to 8pm on weekdays, no work on weekends? That's not a lot, not by a long shot." See, they have such stock…

That answer is quite bullshitty. I was there for many years and a few teams, and 8pm was NOT the norm. In fact, it's ludicrous to even imagine a busy Google office at 8pm. 6pm it starts to slow down, by 6:30 half the office is heading out. Some people would get there super early and leave early-ish. Look, at the end of the day it's about getting shit done and COMMITTING CODE. That latter part is something a lot of pe…

>That answer is quite bullshitty.

You're so focused on the time people leave the office, I can't tell if you're arguing that 50 hour weeks at Google is abnormal.

That answer was upvoted by multiple Google employees/former employees.

>Look, at the end of the day it's about getting shit done and COMMITTING CODE.

Are you suggesting that working long hours equals more and better results? There's a stack of research to contradict you if that's your position.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#246

Post by fspeech »

jordanb wrote: post #98
tptacek wrote: post #71

I was going to add this as a reply to a comment downthread but I think it's too important to bury. The fundamental rule of career progression in the technology industry is to position yourself as a domain expert in something more specific than "programming" . It's very difficult to "own" "programming" in a way where you can use scarcity to drive integer multiple increases of the median salary. It is not as difficult…

The big danger is "owning" some domain that falls out of fashion. You might "own" distributed systems and do great for a time, but then companies start transitioning from that architecture and nobody returns your calls anymore. Also I've noticed a lot of sub-fields like computer vision or self driving cars where there's a great deal of nerd interest but very little actual employment. In fact, I have a feeling that co…

'The big danger is "owning" some domain that falls out of fashion'

That is part of the reason for the high pay. There is always risk associated with specialization. You can't become an expert without specializing in something, but if you specialize in the wrong thing your effort may not be rewarded.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#247

Post by tptacek »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #244
tptacek wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can switch domains.

By sinking your precious time invests sure. But you won’t be able to claim you have 20 years of experience in X anymore, you will be a newbie for awhile. That, and your PhD is already in something else...your papers are already published in other conferences....it can be a problem trying to move from say PL to ML.

I don't think getting a PhD is an especially good maximize-earnings plan.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#248

Post by amyjess »

cgh wrote: post #216
brooklyn_ashey wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, we all need to grapple with the fact that big corporations are behaving more and more like startups because they can. If Google has a higher standard (as has been reported by Google SWEs who perform interviews at Google right here on HN) for entering SWEs based on their age, then we need to take a hard look at that. Yeah, it's illegal and unfair, but no one over 40 and really over 35 is allowed to be a grea…

Yes, you make good points. A distinction should be made between junior 35+ people and 35+ people with at least a decade of experience. But I don't think that's exclusively a software engineering issue. If I tried to become an electrician at 40, my guess is I'd encounter some bias, though probably less than in software. One other thing: by "BigCorps", I'm referring to things like banks, Wal-Mart and so forth, not tech…

> One other thing: by "BigCorps", I'm referring to things like banks, Wal-Mart and so forth, not technology companies like eg Google.

Yeah, I'd much rather work at a traditional conservative BigCorp than a Silicon Valley company that never grew up from startup mentality.

If you do want to stay I tech, I'd recommend looking at the B2B telecom sector. It's far, far more conservative then any other part of the tech industry. They're the only tech companies that I've seen ban T-shirts in the office.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#249

Post by JimboOmega »

mwfunk wrote: post #239
tptacek wrote: post #71

I was going to add this as a reply to a comment downthread but I think it's too important to bury. The fundamental rule of career progression in the technology industry is to position yourself as a domain expert in something more specific than "programming" . It's very difficult to "own" "programming" in a way where you can use scarcity to drive integer multiple increases of the median salary. It is not as difficult…

This is excellent advice. I would add that another key ingredient is never resting on your laurels, and continually learning and improving. Successful people (and companies) often get to a comfortable place where they can get away with doing the same thing over and over, but the money keeps rolling in. It can be very tempting to step off the gas and just enjoy the fruits of your labors for a while. Some people get to…

So... I agree that growing constantly is important.

But I don't agree that having constant side projects and learning the new cool language/framework du jour is necessarily valuable.

I think that there's just too many technologies out there, moving too fast, to be proficient in a significant fraction of them, even if you invest all your time in learning them.

I think there's more value in learning how to do engineering well in one language than learning how to do basic stuff in 20 of them. Because the skills and knowledge of going deeper transfer much better than knowing syntax, etc - stuff you can always pick up for the next job once you know what it is.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#250

Post by joachimH »

I did a retraining as a professional application developer at the age of 37 in Germany. I don't care about age. Of course I knew already that is a little bit crazy to do a retraining in a highly competive field with so much obsession about youth and self-exploitation. I'm 40 now and somewhat a junior dev in the transports and logistics domain but I have a lot of fun doing this stuff and constantly growing and learning in my spare time. I have no technology background and programming experience besides working as a professional online poker player from the year 2008 on. xD Before that time I didn't even own a computer. Some people are really old at the age of 40. My advice would be to put on a really hard physical and mental training program. So you are always in shape and have a clear focused and somewhat young and fresh mind. Do this to the end of your days. Who cares anyway at least you have learned a really great skill. The human craft of computer programming.
Post reply on HN