241–250 of 785 posts
Just in case this converges into normality (if it becomes), how do you think this could affect to investment of tech startups in Barcelona area?
Our startup has been selected to start NUMA winter batch next week, and the last thing we want to have is blood on the street.
From my not so knowledgeable point of view we have: It seems the Spanish government messed up massively here. Instead of embracing a referendum about independence they decided to flatly declare it illegal and attempt to ignore the problem. If they initially embraced the referendum they could have won, I believe that a Yes vote to independence nearly always ends up failing. But instead what happened is, they blankly d…
1) a lot of young men,
2) who have little to lose, and
3) who are used to living a life with not much more comfort than that of a soldier (maybe even less)
The young generation in Catalonia is small, they have a lot to lose, and they live very comfortable lives.
I don't see them taking up arms. Maybe they will take to the streets for a few days, but they are not willing to fight in great numbers, or give up studies or jobs.
In the last civil war in Spain or the one in America or the ones in the Middle East, those conditions were present.
Spanish here, I have family and home in Catalonia. 1) You need to read history to understand the situation. But not the history of the last 100 years, but of the last 1000. Catalonia was never independent, it was part of the Kingdom of Aragon. The kingdom of Aragon and the castle kingdom allied in a dynastic way and created what is known today as Spain. There is no 2) Voting is illegal, it is not illegal to vote but…
> Other regions of Spain, such as Pamplona or Euskadi, have more arguments for independence, but they chose coexistence within the democratic framework. Except that Euskadi had a pro-independence armed group that killed 829 people from 1975 to 2011. Other than that, doesn't Euskadi have its own tax system, distinct from the Spanish one? I think it's not fair to compare both situations.
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I can't name a single secessionist movement that got distracted by economy. If anything, economic troubles reinforce the determination. Once people take independence as a question of pride, they're extremelly reluctant of considering selling their independence for money.
There have also been few successful secessionist movements that weren't backed by force of arms. Anyway, I think the calculus is unique in this case. We are already seeing major companies move their headquarters out of Catalonia. Catalonia's independence would mean disruption of access to EU common market benefits and Schengen. Also they couldn't stop smaller provinces from voting to rejoin Spain.
Not sufficient to win maybe, but definitely to mandate some sort of peacekeepers.
It's been a bit of bad luck what happened. On the Spanish side, the party at the Government did not have enough votes to freely apply their own policies. By helping provoke a polarizing crisis, they hugely improve their chances for an absolute majority to improve their power position should there be an election in Spain. Had they negotiated with Catalan Government, their future chances for a huge win would be a lot l…
> On the Catalan side, there was not enough votes to morally claim for independence Fair enough. How much % census would you consider enough? Catalan pro-independence had higher % than say for instance Brexit vote. And a good chunk of the % was lost to Spanish Police "raids", quite violently boycotting the peaceful vote.
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The UK government did exactly that and got a no vote to the Scottish independence. The Brexit vote was full-on farce, people literally had no idea what they were voting yes to. How could they, there was no plan.
The plan was laid out clearly. The question asked of the electorate was also clear. February 2016 The process for withdrawing from the European Union Presented to Parliament by the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs by Command of Her Majesty https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachm... 2.1 The result of the referendum on the UK’s membership of the European Union will be final.…
43.03% * 91.96% = 39.57%
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Your opinion on what Catalonia will actually need to do to gain independence. Is civil war (however unlikely) the only way?
Stop talking of Catalonia as if there were only one opinion. At least half of catalans don't want independence.
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I'm guessing "national police" referrs to Spanish police and their brutal suppression of the voting, not Catalan police.
You say "brutal suppression" based on the images you saw in the media, right?
Videos, not so much:
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Your opinion on what Catalonia will actually need to do to gain independence. Is civil war (however unlikely) the only way?
Stop talking of Catalonia as if there were only one opinion. At least half of catalans don't want independence.
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Democratic will is the will of voters, by not voting you choose to let others decide for you. You can’t reward people for not voting, that’s just utterly insane.
In the minds of the Spanish people of Catalonia the referendum was completely illegitimate, why would they vote in it?