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Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

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Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#241

Post by cromwellian »

s73ver_ wrote: post #169
cromwellian wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"PERCEIVED lack"? Doesn't the fact that salaries are sky rocketing essentially disprove your point? Why are the salaries getting pushed higher and higher? Because demand for SWEs is outstripping supply. This to me looks like the same kind of privileged outlook that other professional guilds like the AMA desire. Do you want cheaper healthcare, or doctor compensation to keep going up? Hey, letting nurse practitioners t…

"Yes, the good times for software engineering will come to an end. I'm a software engineer, this will affect me. But the question is, do I have a natural god given right to have a ballooning salary every year, while fighting attempts to increase labor supply that might cut that growth rate?" Does your employer have a natural, God given right to cheap labor?

Do I have a right not to have competition from other people in my industry underbidding me? My employer's rights are not the issue, it's whether I have a right to restrain others from entering the market through means like trying to oppose training and educational opportunities.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#242

Post by propogandist »

WalterBright wrote: post #164
vkou wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, the good times for software engineering will come to an end. I'm a software engineer, this will affect me. But the question is, do I have a natural god given right to have a ballooning salary every year, while fighting attempts to increase labor supply that might cut that growth rate? Does our owner class have a natural god-given right to a 6% return on their investment every year, for doing nothing? They are…

> Does our owner class have a natural god-given right to a 6% return on their investment every year, for doing nothing? You, too, can become an "owner class" by opening an online trading account and buying stocks. Commissions are often under $10 for a trade.

Stop paying $10, and use Robinhood which offers Free Trades.

It has limitations, so you'd want a traditional broker also.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#243

Post by Apocryphon »

s73ver_ wrote: post #190
Apocryphon wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly unrestrained resource extraction and financialization of the entire economy- generating wealth for a select few with complex financial instruments that has no real purpose for the general public- are bad. But surely much of tech does provide some benefit to society. What happened to software is eating the world?

But is Google doing that? And does it have to be Google?

I'm not sure what you're referring to exactly. I'm not praising Google in this story- I think they're doing this strictly for business reasons- but I still think it's a positive action even if it's motivated by the bottom line. But it's inevitable that them, just like most other giant companies in the black, are going to expand sooner or later, and they will need more workers. So there's not much you can do about that. If it's not Google or Apple hiring, it's going to be Tesla or SpaceX or Kiva or these guys (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/16/technology/a-start-up-sug...)

My main point is trying to stem the demand for more workers, whether H1Bs or American citizens, is futile. And even if somehow American firms stopped demanding more tech workers, firms abroad will be as well. So why not try to train more people to become workers?

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#244

Post by cromwellian »

swendoog wrote: post #206
cromwellian wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"PERCEIVED lack"? Doesn't the fact that salaries are sky rocketing essentially disprove your point? Why are the salaries getting pushed higher and higher? Because demand for SWEs is outstripping supply. This to me looks like the same kind of privileged outlook that other professional guilds like the AMA desire. Do you want cheaper healthcare, or doctor compensation to keep going up? Hey, letting nurse practitioners t…

I continue to be thoroughly surprised by the people who are accusing me of things like "protectionism". If you re-read my original post you will notice that I did NOT advocate for artificially restricting worker supply, or any kind of protectionism. I merely warned that what we're seeing in tech WILL bring an end to the "high" salaries, and that those who wish to maintain their current state, should consider PERSONAL…

The difference is people saying "I got mine, and I'm going to vote against and oppose any thing that increases opportunities for other people to enter my industry and compete with me."

To me, that's unfair and wrong.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#245

Post by Apocryphon »

s73ver_ wrote: post #188
Apocryphon wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then what are they supposed to do, stop growing? Sure they could stand to raise wages for existing workers across the board (and they should) but that doesn't solve the labor supply issue. Maybe some of these grants can go towards retraining existing engineers who need to acquire new skills.

Why do they need to continue growing? They're already what, 80% of online ads?

Google will just continue to move into more markets and moonshot projects until either the shareholders revolt or the government applies antitrust. But if not them, some other organization will need tech workers, and are you going to ask them to stop growing? See this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15461924

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#246

Post by tdb7893 »

blacksmith_tb wrote: post #176
tdb7893 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It probably helps but saying it's necessary seems a little far fetched to me. Also since pretty much everyone I knew growing up went to college I don't think "college-level" is really meaningful for much except wealth nowadays

That may say as much about you as it does about the population at large, right now about a third of adults in the US have a bachelor's degree[1]. 1: http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/326995-census-more-a...

I would guess the vast majority of people in my highschool were in the top fourth of income in America (including my family, we were well off but not super rich because my dad was in the military and then a commercial pilot and my mom was a teacher). I'm sure other people have different experiences but waaaayyyy more than the national average of people from my highschool went to college and I can tell you that while it was a decent school it was not filled with geniuses. It's why I think a large amount of the reason people go to college is cultural and that to many people college ends up being more of a symbol of status than a intellectual achievement.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#247

Post by jas_far »

briholt wrote: post #56
bradleyjg wrote: post #28

I'd be more impressed if they committed to hiring employees that don't already have the skills they are looking for and doing on the job training. That would be far more effective both in terms of actual skills transfer and in terms of future career trajectory than Yet More Retraining Programs untethered from any actual employer or employment opportunities. We've been doing the latter since at least the Kennedy admin…

Another major glaring problem that no one wants to admit is that lots of tech work requires (at the very least) college-level-IQ, which excludes the majority of the population. And the lower-IQ jobs are quickly being automated away.

What exactly is a college-level IQ? Does everybody who goes to college have a college-level IQ?

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#248

Post by forapurpose »

thatonechad wrote: post #68

Universities need to start focusing on skills instead of general education. Imagine the amount of skills you could learn if you didn't have to take 60 hours of nonsense credits and focus on skills you require. Programming / Networking / Hardware need a new type of University that is similar to Trade colleges but focus primarily on the skills and nothing more. The first 1-2 years could focus on the foundations while t…

> nonsense credits

The assumption here is that education is nonsense. I think the skills are far less valuable: Education teaches you about the world you have to live in, in business, and as a citizen, a parent, a consumer, etc., by exposing you to leading people and ideas from around the world and throughout history. It teaches you to reason, by exposing you to the great thinkers now and in history. Reading blogs on the Internet isn't nearly the same thing.

If we send people home from college only with the vocational skill of building an integrated circuit, they will find that it doesn't begin to address most of the challenges in life, much less their community's and society's.

Integrated circuits aren't what the West needs to move forward at this point, to address poverty, discrimination, war, and all the other issues. In our current society, we do very well with integrated circuits and very poorly with life, social and political issues, perhaps we need to focus on education in the latter, not the former.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#249

Post by [deleted] »

was_boring wrote: post #154
jimmaswell wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm thankful I found a company like that after graduating. Seemingly the only such specimen in America today. It's a giant international consultancy company that seemingly has a questionable reputation online but it was all I could get that paid anything remotely respectable and they even do paid training. It's seems to be one of a rapidly dwindling handful of paths for new grads who are graduating and finding out th…

Was this Accenture? They used to have a 3-week java training program for those entering as new grads, but I believe that's been reduced in scope now.

[deleted]

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#250

Post by BjoernKW »

briholt wrote: post #237
BjoernKW wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make this sound like someone with an IQ less than 120 is mentally impaired. An IQ of 100 is defined as the median IQ level for a population. The range between 90 and 130 covers the whole gamut of human intelligence that's commonly considered normal. Much of the day-to-day work in IT often doesn't need original thinking but merely skillful application of known methods and patterns, which in turn doesn't require a…

Find one successful programmer at Google/Apple/Facebook/Cisco/etc. with an IQ of 90. Remembering basic equations, keeping long sequences of functions sorted in your head, even understanding FTP/Git/CL instructions require this level cognitive ability. When you deal with people who can't hang shirts you'll start to understand this. There are just under 200 million Americans with IQs between "can't hang shirts" and "pr…

> Find one successful programmer at Google/Apple/Facebook/Cisco/

Point proven, eh? I'm not talking about these people (though I surmise there are quite a few in these companies as well who don't have that level of intelligence and simply tag along ...) but about the vast majority of IT workers working on some supposedly 'boring' database application.

Google and Apple in particular have been known for hiring highly qualified engineers only to then have them maintain some run-of-the-mill administrative software they're vastly overqualified to work on.

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