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The Depression Thing

zachholman.com

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Re: The Depression Thing

#241

Post by sooheon »

pgeorgi wrote: post #106
Nav_Panel wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an almost absurd criticism ("be careful telling people to sleep, people I know who were depressed followed that advice and slept for 12-14 hours every day"). Let's fix it by being more specific, so we don't accidentally cause any more problems: "daily moderate-intensity cardiovascular exercise" (or, if you prefer, "resistance training 3x week"). Or even, "a healthy level of exercise". I agree that therapy is…

> you shouldn't need a therapist to figure this one out. A reasonable amount of exercise is good for pretty much everyone. People with clinical depression aren't those who _can_ easily hit the gym for that dopamine rush. "Some sport is usually not a bad idea" is not the hard part, getting to the point where it can be implemented is. And if that is the problem, and none of the pep talks on hacker news over the last fe…

I understand where you're coming from, but I'll just point out that you can reverse the activities and make the same point:

"People with depression aren't those who can easily just hit up a therapist and continue going and get well. If that's too much of a social burden, why not try just going for a bike ride?"

Re: The Depression Thing

#242

Post by sooheon »

eradicatethots wrote: post #196
Nav_Panel wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly. I have been in the position before where I was at the bottom of my own personal pit and was unable to begin exercising on my own (severely depressed and obese, not a great combination to begin an exercise program). It's not an easy thing to get started doing _anything_ when you're depressed, habits are hard to change. People shouldn't be expected to change these things (purely) on their own, as a lot is a…

No need to treat depressed people like children and withhold info about risks. They’re still humans after all.

I believe you misunderstood the point. The problem is that the "risks" of exercise are blown out of proportion.

Re: The Depression Thing

#243

Post by curun1r »

madamelic wrote: post #69
SnowingXIV wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also a viscous cycle once you stop doing these things. I had everything going well for me, but then a bunch kinda blew up at once and I stopped eating healthy, quit working out, and was losing sleep because I was trying to solve all these other problems and felt those things were pointless. "Oh, I can't get in the mindset to lift today I'm too stressed out and depressed/hopeless." That led me from only skipping…

>It's also a viscous cycle once you stop doing these things. It is also gosh dang terrifying. I am not so much curing my depression + anxiety as much as I am running away and trying put enough stuff behind me that it can't catch me. But when it does, it is difficult to get started again.

> I am running away and trying put enough stuff behind me that it can't catch me

I'm not sure I like that way of looking at it. I choose to look at it like I'm an addict. Addicts, even once they're sober, consider themselves to be addicts their entire life. Any day they can fall off the wagon, even after years of sobriety, so they're constantly vigilant. I look at my depression the same way, only not doing the necessary things that keep me well is my version of falling off the wagon. Just like addicts do, I try to keep my streak of "sober" days going as long as possible. And when I slip up, I try not to beat myself up and just try to start an even longer new streak.

It's somewhat empowering to gain a little measure of control over it, even if it's really, really hard. But it's also important, I think, to realize I'll always be a depressive my entire life, even if I'm not feeling it at the moment.

Re: The Depression Thing

#244

Post by Swizec »

eradicatethots wrote: post #240
Swizec wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If someone tries this for several years and it doesn’t help them, would you consider your theory thoroughly debunked? Yes.

Well then what do you say to the athletes in this thread who tried this for several years and felt no better? Have you been debunked? Does everyone have to spend 2 years of their life’s on your advice before they’re allowed to say “This doesn’t work for me”? I can’t imagine you think that’s reasonable... I think it would be more helpful if people stopped throwing this sort of advice around like it’s useful to people…

> could you be feeling the same way?

Yeah you're probably right.

I guess what bothers me about the whole thing are the 2 or 3 years of my life I spent vehemently disagreeing with everyone who gave me This Advice and telling them that it doesn't work and they need to fuck right off. Then when I actually legit gave it a chance, it worked.

Maybe I just got lucky. Maybe the therapy worked more than I think and it's what enabled me to give This Advice a chance. I'll never know, it's not like I can A/B test.

Re: The Depression Thing

#245

Post by swendoog »

One thing for certain can be gleaned from reading all the responses in this thread: We have no idea neither what the cause of depression is, nor what the solution is.

Everyone here has posted something different. Exercise, diet, sleep, medication x, medication y, prayer, water, gluten, meditation, losing weight, socializing... the list goes on, and on.

If this weren't heavily susceptible to placebo, you'd expect that list to be much shorter. My guess is that just doing SOMETHING makes people feel better.

Re: The Depression Thing

#246

Post by eradicatethots »

Swizec wrote: post #244
eradicatethots wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well then what do you say to the athletes in this thread who tried this for several years and felt no better? Have you been debunked? Does everyone have to spend 2 years of their life’s on your advice before they’re allowed to say “This doesn’t work for me”? I can’t imagine you think that’s reasonable... I think it would be more helpful if people stopped throwing this sort of advice around like it’s useful to people…

> could you be feeling the same way? Yeah you're probably right. I guess what bothers me about the whole thing are the 2 or 3 years of my life I spent vehemently disagreeing with everyone who gave me This Advice and telling them that it doesn't work and they need to fuck right off. Then when I actually legit gave it a chance, it worked. Maybe I just got lucky. Maybe the therapy worked more than I think and it's what…

I can relate, it worked for me too for a while. Still not really sure what I’m doing, but in a sense I’m back to where I was before I ever went doe that road... definitely might be totally wrong about things, I’m pretty afraid of that actually. This maybe won’t make sense to you but it basically forced me to lie about things, to pretend I didn’t understand people and I think that was cruel.

Re: The Depression Thing

#247

Post by ThrowawayP »

Swizec wrote: post #145
ThrowawayP wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Changing your lifestyle to treat depression works. I did (and am still doing) all of those lifestyle changes and it didn't help me in the slightest. So much for that theory. Not that people shouldn't try lifestyle changes but they are not the magic cure-all you're selling them as.

That’s awesome! Keep at it. It takes a few years. And as other have pointed out, depression isn’t super curable, it’s more like going in remission. I liken it to addiction as well. Stop doing the things that keep it at bay? Boom there it is, comes right back. Just like an addict makes an active decision every day to not do their thing, so too must I actively do things that keep the depression away. No magic, just har…

> It takes a few years.

It's been a bit under three years already; no joy.

Your theory just plain doesn't hold water. Sure would be nice if it did, though.

Re: The Depression Thing

#248

Post by sp3000 »

jrowley wrote: post #193
ClassyJacket wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the most ridiculous and irrelevant warning I can imagine. Almost nobody us at risk of over exercising if they haven't started yet. It's like saying "Don't eat salad, I know someone that ate so much lettuce they got sick."

It's easy to become dependent on exercising, push too hard, get injured, and struggle while you can't exercise. Moderation can be difficult for some of us even with something like running.

Here is where the benefits of promoting exercise far outweigh any risks that people who exercise may experience. There is no need to hedge here. Exercise might not cure your depression or even help it, but in general, exercise has been shown over and over again to be one of the most effective things that you can do for mental and physical health.

Re: The Depression Thing

#249

Post by Garph »

madamelic wrote: post #69
SnowingXIV wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also a viscous cycle once you stop doing these things. I had everything going well for me, but then a bunch kinda blew up at once and I stopped eating healthy, quit working out, and was losing sleep because I was trying to solve all these other problems and felt those things were pointless. "Oh, I can't get in the mindset to lift today I'm too stressed out and depressed/hopeless." That led me from only skipping…

>It's also a viscous cycle once you stop doing these things. It is also gosh dang terrifying. I am not so much curing my depression + anxiety as much as I am running away and trying put enough stuff behind me that it can't catch me. But when it does, it is difficult to get started again.

>I am running away and trying put enough stuff behind me that it can't catch me.

I'm a runner with depression. I track my mileage, diet and general mood very closely and have started to brace myself for a depressive periods after major races.

I need redundancy with coping mechanisms, and the OCD nature of distance running is potentially setting people up for a fragile system should an injury occur or low-mileage phase crop up.

Re: The Depression Thing

#250

Post by acscott »

In general, if one has a serious decision to make, it's probably wise to seek out expert counsel (not that you should blindly follow that counsel either). Same goes with your health.

[Avoiding getting into some kind of discussion about anecdotes, scientific evidence, etiology, qualifications, etc. I am glad for remissions and worried about those still suffering.]

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