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Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

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Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#241

Post by autotune »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #230
autotune wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook reaches out to me every few months and don't have a degree. I don't have the time or patience to study for their fresh-out-of-cs-grad style interview process though so only go with companies that test for what actually happens on the job vs in a text book, of which there are plenty.

You can't beat the RSUs

Even if true you can still beat a hundred other things like not having to be on-call, base pay, location (remote vs Manlo Park/ManFrancisco or being senior enough for their alternate locations), and lack of Test Driven Development (feel free to prove me wrong here). It's far easier to get a fat base pay somewhere sensible that knows how to manage a remote team, where you can then live in a low COL area or with better housing and cultural options, than to deal with bureaucratic nonsense for the chance of cashing out a few extra dollars in a few years in a high COL area where you don't have a life outside of work for that time, IMHO.

Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#242

Post by jolux »

foo101 wrote: post #130

Here are the facts about Unix. * The name "UNIX" or "Unix" is trademarked. * AIX, Solaris and HP-UX are certified Unix systems. These are bonafide Unix systems and there indeed are software developers today who work with these Unix systems.[2] * The set of Unix-like systems is a superset of the set of Unix systems. The set of Unix-like systems include systems like Linux, FreeBSD, etc. which the set of certified Unix…

macOS is also officially a Unix system.

Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#243

Post by bsamuels »

on_and_off wrote: post #234

You are technically right but also very wrong. Empathy is a critical skill in engineering. In this exchange you have shown to be unable to understand what the recruiter's point of view. You will encounter many similar situations in your career, especially when working with people in areas of expertise different than yours. Luckily, it is a skill, not a gift. So it is just up to you to get better at it.

I'm sorry, but we're looking for social skills, not empathy. -Facebook Recruiter

Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#244

Post by nulagrithom »

flukus wrote: post #42
mquander wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure he could have done a better job communicating to the recruiter. You could tell he was slightly irritated, and maybe somehow he could have figured out a different framing that the recruiter would understand. (But note that at the end, he changed his strategy and said simply that he had experience with Linux and UNIX, and the recruiter still didn't care. It really isn't clear whether there was any approach tha…

> He did like a 75% good job. I'd say a 75% good job for a fresh grad is a really good score. Explaining technical jargon to the computer illiterate is not really something you can learn at school.

Not to mention he shouldn't have to in this instance. He's talking to someone who's recruiting for technical positions.

At a big-name company like this, is it really too much to ask that someone understand the basics of the technology and they're recruiting for?

I mean, I explain technical jargon all day long, sure, but I work at a trucking company. Still, my interview process certainly didn't run in to any problem like this, and had it, I can assure you I would've been met with no resistance with the given explanation...

Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#245

Post by nulagrithom »

brad0 wrote: post #112

Other comments say this guy should learn how to communicate better. I agree with that. Knowing the person you're talking to helps greatly. The average recruiter has a high school certificate and that's it. They're hired to do largely manual work comparing skills on resumes to skills on job positions. Now that you know how they work you should ask yourself what's your goal? Is it to get that internship at Facebook? If…

> Put the skills from the job listing on your damn resume.

He did. Everyone seems to be scrolling by that screenshot. He's trying to be honest -- the poor bastard.

A few more interactions like this though and he's bound to start telling white lies on his resume. Eventually he'll start to think "sure, I've got like '4 years'ish of experience in that... fuck it..." And so it goes.

Pretty soon he's just like everyone else who doesn't bat an eye at "10 years of Swift experience" and all that garbage.

Frankly, if Facebook is hiring recruiters fresh out of HS with no tech background and treating fresh, naive, honest soon-to-be devs like this, then they've failed their own interview. This is nothing short of ridiculous.

Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#246

Post by yorwba »

foo101 wrote: post #173
tristor wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solaris and AIX /are/ UNIX. Solaris is derived from SunOS, which is derived from 4.2BSD, which was directly licensed by Sun from AT&T via a UNIX source license. Solaris and SunOS were both certified as UNIX. Similarly IBM licensed AT&T UNIX and derived AIX. It is still certified as UNIX. The Open Group holds the UNIX trademark and copyrights and conducts the certification and licensing process these days. See here: h…

> Solaris and AIX /are/ UNIX. Did you read my comments carefully? I am saying the same thing as you are. I am saying that Solaris and AIX /are/ bonafide Unix systems in all my comments.

They are focusing on the distinction between UNIX and Unix.

Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#247

Post by tdeck »

foo101 wrote: post #171
deathanatos wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I quizzed engineers, what percentage of them do you think would get that exactly right? Prior to your post, I had myself thought — as Stanley seems to — think that Unix referred to the operating system by that name. I did not know that, > By decree of The Open Group, the term "UNIX" refers more to a class of operating systems than to a specific implementation of an operating system; those operating systems which m…

All I am saying is that when technology people like us are debating about terminology, we can cut the recruiter some slack, be nice to him or her and be more explicit in our communication to the recruiter. For example, instead of responding to "We are looking for experience in Linux and Unix" with "I have updated my resume with POSIX", respond with the following instead assuming you indeed have real Unix experience w…

People keep mentioning Solaris as a solution but as one recent college grad (2014) I can say nobody was really using Solaris anymore. Maybe other schools still have Solaris labs but we did not. Same with AIX and HP-UX. I really only know about these because I'm interested in tech history.

Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#248

Post by altrego99 »

aspyrx wrote: post #128

Hey folks, I'm the student writing the emails in the post here. Thanks to everyone for their criticisms. While I was initially kind of shocked by the recruiter's response, I've had a lot of time to think about it today and have realized that I was being pretty damn condescending and spoke out of line without regards to the context. It's been a hard lesson learned. I honestly regret the whole exchange, and posting it…

I think you did the right thing posting this. If I were in Facebook, I'd like to learn about this.

Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#249

Post by peterkelly »

aspyrx wrote: post #128

Hey folks, I'm the student writing the emails in the post here. Thanks to everyone for their criticisms. While I was initially kind of shocked by the recruiter's response, I've had a lot of time to think about it today and have realized that I was being pretty damn condescending and spoke out of line without regards to the context. It's been a hard lesson learned. I honestly regret the whole exchange, and posting it…

You were dealing with an idiot. I don't think you said anything wrong.

Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#250

Post by cesnja »

derenrich wrote: post #143
aspyrx wrote: post #128

Hey folks, I'm the student writing the emails in the post here. Thanks to everyone for their criticisms. While I was initially kind of shocked by the recruiter's response, I've had a lot of time to think about it today and have realized that I was being pretty damn condescending and spoke out of line without regards to the context. It's been a hard lesson learned. I honestly regret the whole exchange, and posting it…

Eh, honestly I would've been similarly frustrated. The recruiter seems like they are being needlessly bureaucratic. Either they are familiar with Unix and thus should know that Unix-like is synonymous with Unix nowadays or they aren't and they should take your word. Maybe you were a little condescending but it happens and rejecting someone on the basis of this exchange seems mad to me. If FB doesn't reverse their dec…

In fact, the recruiter was the one that introduced "UNIX-like" term, in a reply to second resume change. Judging from that, I'd say this recruiter is intentionally malicious.
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