ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field • Hacker News Board

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#241

Post by baddox » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 9:04 PM UTC

koolba wrote: post #220

pwthornton wrote: post #166

Football's core problem is still denial that this is an issue. Until that happens, real, concrete steps won't be taken to address it. Here are a few suggestions: 1) No tackle football before a certain age (to be determined by scientists based on brain development and how damaging a concussion would be). You can learn a ton about football, running routes, learning plays, getting in shape, etc. without hitting people.…

> 1) No tackle football before a certain age (to be determined by scientists based on brain development and how damaging a concussion would be). You can learn a ton about football, running routes, learning plays, getting in shape, etc. without hitting people. Good luck enforcing this with kids. We played flag football in school but full tackle with zero supervision after school in the park. > 2) Ban hitting. Everythi…

> Good luck enforcing this with kids. We played flag football in school but full tackle with zero supervision after school in the park.

Sure, kids will sometimes hurt each other just horsing around too. I think the idea here is for sanctioned children's leagues and school teams to not allow tackling.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#242

Post by icelancer » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 9:05 PM UTC

Waterluvian wrote: post #173

Pxtl wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hockey has the advantage that the sport could we reworked into something less violent. Hockey could survive a change to the rules that would reduce blows to the head. Football is such an intrinsically contact sport that I don't think a safer game would even be recognizable. Actually, that might be worse... If hockey turns out to have as bad a concussion problem, the leadership of the sport is likely even more culpabl…

Hockey can be a beautiful game of finesse, speed, and precision. It could absolutely be re-worked. Football is fundamentally flawed. Many positions exist entirely because it's rough and violent. Players who never touch the football in a well played game.

>>Hockey can be a beautiful game of finesse, speed, and precision. It could absolutely be re-worked.

Indeed. Olympic hockey is a perfect example of a step in that direction, and one of the greatest versions of the game in existence.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#243

Post by LeifCarrotson » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 9:08 PM UTC

EpicEng wrote: post #187

Pxtl wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hockey has the advantage that the sport could we reworked into something less violent. Hockey could survive a change to the rules that would reduce blows to the head. Football is such an intrinsically contact sport that I don't think a safer game would even be recognizable. Actually, that might be worse... If hockey turns out to have as bad a concussion problem, the leadership of the sport is likely even more culpabl…

>Hockey has the advantage that the sport could we reworked into something less violent. Hockey could survive a change to the rules that would reduce blows to the head. Could it? I wonder how many people would continue to watch hockey if fights weren't essentially sanctioned as a part of the game. I imagine only the diehards as it's not the most entertaining sport in the world...

I think hockey would not be affected much, but NASCAR would drop precipitously if they reworked safety, car design, and rules such that there were no more major crashes.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#244

Post by jnordwick » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 9:09 PM UTC

lamp_book wrote: post #181

beachy wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key factor in that report though is that it concludes that "Concussion rates highest for kids in rugby, hockey and football". I'd guess its likely that American football as played in the NFL is a very different game to the one played by kids, and there might be virtually no correlation of actual risks. Rugby is also very different between kids and professionals of course - my 5 yr old plays ripper rugby which inv…

Even if there is no correlation of risks between the youth and professional levels of play (and I don't doubt that), parents steering their kids towards away from rugby, hockey, and football will eventually hemorrhage market share for those professional leagues in favor of safer sports. We have flag football in the US for younger kids, sounds roughly analogous to ripper rugby.

There is also flag football for adults! They often have different leagues from no and partial contact up to 8-on-8 full contact (this is still flag and no tackle).

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#245

Post by stevenwoo » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 9:09 PM UTC

athenot wrote: post #82

komali2 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is how I feel about boxing vs MMA. Boxing gloves are huge and massively padded, meaning you take hit after hit after hit, bouncing your brain around like a ball. MMA gloves are only padded enough to maybe prevent you from breaking your knuckles, and maybe prevent your knuckles from breaking someone's jaw. If you threw the kind of punches people throw in boxing with MMA gloves on, you'd wreck your hands. That one…

Of course, that's for classic boxing. I train muay thai and you're also liable to get a shin/knee/ankle/elbow from your opponent, and there's zero padding there. However, as someone else commented, there are some crucial differences with football: - there's no injury unless it's an actual fight. Sparring is intentionally toned down, because the sport is not about the power but agility and speed. Those can be practice…

I could be mistaken but I thought a few concussions was enough to cause brain damage, once you get to three there's a marked increase in permanent, measureable damage in most people, if one is under 25, it doesn't take as much.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#246

Post by dizzystar » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 9:09 PM UTC

hota_mazi wrote: post #225

Pxtl wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hockey has the advantage that the sport could we reworked into something less violent. Hockey could survive a change to the rules that would reduce blows to the head. Football is such an intrinsically contact sport that I don't think a safer game would even be recognizable. Actually, that might be worse... If hockey turns out to have as bad a concussion problem, the leadership of the sport is likely even more culpabl…

> Football is such an intrinsically contact sport that I don't think a safer game would even be recognizable. And yet, rubgy and Australian football have just as much contact and do not suffer from an endemic injury problem. Maybe something related to the padding?

Here's a bit where they measured the force of rugby -vs- football tackles. Football is 3 times harder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7tGY-VDx3o

Don't have much commentary on the subject and just wanted to share the vid. I'd only think that a difference like that can't really be resolved to padding.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#247

Post by jimjimjim » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 9:09 PM UTC

Other parts of the world change the rules of their 'person holding ball and running' games to make them safer for players.

Rubgy union, rugby league, aussie rules. All have had rule changes over the years to make them safer.

And these are in countries with universal health care and without a 'sue everybody' culture.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#248

Post by QuotedForTruth » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 9:10 PM UTC

cpsempek wrote: post #83

QuotedForTruth wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also even though Red Bull and other sponsors are making money off other's risk, they aren't actively trying to suppress and hide that info like it seems the NFL has been doing for years regarding concussion risk.

I agree with you point, but assume the NFL does admit fault and revise their position to be aligned with medical findings. Does watching the sport make is any more or less moral. I do not think so. You are right, the NFL is being dishonest and irresponsible, but viewing the sport is an act separated entirely from this fact.

I'm not sure what you are arguing. People watching doesn't make it any more or less moral, no.

People or organizations profiting off the risky behavior of others is potentially immoral. IMO a large part of why its either moral or not is in the participant's knowledge of the risk. If the group profiting on the other's risk is actively seeking to hide the risk then it is definitely immoral.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#249

Post by hockeybias » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 9:12 PM UTC

As a lot of you probably know, the European style of hockey - as opposed to the North American 'Dump and Chase' (and Clobber into the end boards) style is a very entertaining brand of hockey to watch.

A lot of people disagree with me, but I believe that the chippy, dangerous stuff could be legislated out of the NHL if the league implemented truly stiff fines and penalties that would discourage coaches from putting chippy players on the ice and discourage GMs from signing chippy players. Hit the owners in he pocketbook and things will change. that is what I believe.

Having said that, I feel that as long as Bettman and the NHL owners feel that the chippy stuff puts butts in the seats it will be part of the NHL.

I perceive that the players do not have as much respect for each other and the game as they did years ago. This is not an original thought of mine and has been drummed into my head a bit over the years. It does seem to me that some of the most dangerous hits would not occur if the players respected one another more. That is just a perception of mine. Any thoughts?

I know serious hockey fans in Minnesota who have grown fond of the girls (high school) and womens (NCAA) rules that do not allow checking. I personally like good, solid, clean checks that separate the opponent from the puck.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#250

Post by moriarty-s3a » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 9:12 PM UTC

dhimes wrote: post #191

Rapzid wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never really followed it but could enjoy a game every now and then. Now I have a distaste for it. My biggest issue by far is how embedded football is into our public school system. They are essentially feeder leagues for the NFL that the public pays to operate. We glorify the sport to little kids and then shove them into the head trauma pipeline. We should absolutely not be a party to that at the public level. I'm…

The parents are the problem. It's ridiculous to see them. Football is the most important part of their life and damn if their kid isn't going to play. Could you imagine if our schools and home cultures emphasized putting that kind of work into math rather than football?

I have seen a few environments like that and they can be just as corrosive. I have seen middle school kids that were great artists or writers or musicians told that they were failures at life because they weren't one of the 15 best math students in their school.