Impossible Foods has raised $75M for its plant-based burgers • Hacker News Board

Re: Impossible Foods has raised $75M for its plant-based burgers

#241

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 3:57 PM UTC

Danihan wrote: post #238

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no gentle way to make the complaint about I'm about to: going to Mercola.com for good health science is roughly equivalent to referring to the Flat Earth Society for good GPS algorithms. Joe Mercola has developed a multimillion dollar business which is essentially built on telling his audience that everything in the world is poisonous unless he sells it to them. When I say he's one of the folks who believe th…

The Mercola article has citations, which you ignored. There is also a link to a MIT paper which you ignored, and deals with the main ingredient in the product at hand. >When I say he's one of the folks who believe that fluoridation is a nefarious government conspiracy, I am not kidding. Fluoride lowers IQ in children an average of 15 points, per Harvard meta-analysis. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/fluori…

> Fluoride lowers IQ in children an average of 15 points, per Harvard meta-analysis.

No. Aside from the fact that meta-analyses are primarily a means of identifying areas for direct research because they have a strong tendency to magnify publication bias (among other problems), that's not what the cited piece concludes. Your own quote shows that the conclusion is much weaker, noting that the meta-analysis “found strong indications that fluoride may adversely affect cognitive development in children.”

Finding strong indications that it has a possibility (“may” ≠ “does”) of causing some adverse reaction is not the same as concluding that it does have any adverse impact, and even farther from any particular quantification of that impact. And the actual average result (which isn't a study conclusion on the actual impact) was 7, not 15 IQ points for “high flouride content”; to quote your source: “The average loss in IQ was reported as a standardized weighted mean difference of 0.45, which would be approximately equivalent to seven IQ points for commonly used IQ scores with a standard deviation of 15.”

Re: Impossible Foods has raised $75M for its plant-based burgers

#242

Post by ceph_ » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 3:57 PM UTC

acomjean wrote: post #158

ceph_ wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People enjoy eating certain foods. Having options that allow you to replicate a certain taste without having to kill something is desirable to people who have gone veg. There's also the aspects of food as a culture or social participation. People want to be able to participate in things like BBQs or eat out at restaurants with friends.

>without having to kill something I think even vegans/vegetarians have to acknowledge they are killing plants to eat. I suspect the better for environment/health argument is more prevalent (why I eat little meat). At some point somethings going to have to die to feed yourself (until we can gene edit photosynthesis into humans..). I take some consolation that I'll be feeding bacteria when I'm gone.

Do you think killing an animal is the same as killing a plant? I've never met a someone who felt that way. I don't think it's common whatsoever, especially among vegetarians.

Re: Impossible Foods has raised $75M for its plant-based burgers

#243

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 4:01 PM UTC

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #121

Danihan wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how highly, highly processed foods are suddenly A-OK to many people here once it's a fake meat product. >But high-temperature processing has the unfortunate side effect of so denaturing the other proteins in soy that they are rendered largely ineffective.23 That's why animals on soy feed need lysine supplements for normal growth. >Nitrites, which are potent carcinogens, are formed during spray-drying, and a to…

There's no gentle way to make the complaint about I'm about to: going to Mercola.com for good health science is roughly equivalent to referring to the Flat Earth Society for good GPS algorithms. Joe Mercola has developed a multimillion dollar business which is essentially built on telling his audience that everything in the world is poisonous unless he sells it to them. When I say he's one of the folks who believe th…

> And while no one claims MSG has massive health benefits, it's been extremely well established that it's harmless. It's just a salt.

While it's true that MSG is well-studied and about as well-established as safe as can be, “It’s just a salt” is, well, not support for it’s safety; potassium cyanide is also just a salt, and no one (sane, at least) is going to argue that it is safe to ingest.

Re: Impossible Foods has raised $75M for its plant-based burgers

#244

Post by schitzapplebits » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 4:06 PM UTC

kevinmchugh wrote: post #239

schitzapplebits wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who freezes ground beef before turning it into a world-class hamburger? What's the best frozen hamburger I can buy? I do, because I'm not a restaurant, and I don't buy enough meat for one or two servings of hamburger. If a restaurant's been around long enough and has enough turn over, they won't have my problem, but a place could want to freeze for time reasons, or to help with getting a gnarly crust by cooking it…

When I don't want to take the time to grind my own meat I have the butcher do it for me. I don't know any restaurants that incorporate freezing to improve quality, only to lower costs.

It comes down to logistics. Maybe I'm a smaller restaurant, and I want to serve BBQ or fresh bread. Might not be feasible for them to smoke a brisket every day if they're not a brisket place, but you can definitely freeze some brisket and bring it back to life in pretty good quality. It doesn't improve it, but it lets a restaurant serve something that they otherwise couldn't.

Same goes for fresh bread. Maybe they want to serve pastrami sandwiches in Manhattan, but the best rye bread they can find is in Detroit, and so they have their baker freeze the bread and ship it over. It's not that the bread is better because it was frozen, but they're able to get better bread because they could freeze it.

Re: Impossible Foods has raised $75M for its plant-based burgers

#245

Post by newscracker » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 4:07 PM UTC

aphextron wrote: post #26

What is it with first-world vegans/vegetarians wanting to eat these extremely processed imitation meat frozen foods? There is an entire tradition of vegetarian cuisine around the world from Rasta Ital, to Hindu Sattvic, Afghani, and Thai which you could learn with just a tiny bit of effort.

It's not a first world phenomenon alone. For most people around the world, the food they've grown up with is almost part of their identity and also a comfort factor. It's one reason why many people have real struggles, with themselves, when wanting to change their food habits and give up what they're used to. One might argue that people being stuck to certain things sounds silly, but it's the reality around. To have large scale change, we need such alternatives.

Re: Impossible Foods has raised $75M for its plant-based burgers

#246

Post by newscracker » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 4:13 PM UTC

vintageseltzer wrote: post #212

reycharles wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you soak the lentils?

Soaking lentils (and other legumes like chickpeas) cuts cooking time by about half.

It's even more important for legumes and other foods because it removes phytic acid (one of the things that prevents absorption of nutrients/minerals) and makes it easier to digest. It's similar with nuts too. They all become nutritionally more accessible (and "richer") when soaked and the soaking water is later thrown out (before cooking).

Re: Impossible Foods has raised $75M for its plant-based burgers

#247

Post by Danihan » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 4:14 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #241

Danihan wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Mercola article has citations, which you ignored. There is also a link to a MIT paper which you ignored, and deals with the main ingredient in the product at hand. >When I say he's one of the folks who believe that fluoridation is a nefarious government conspiracy, I am not kidding. Fluoride lowers IQ in children an average of 15 points, per Harvard meta-analysis. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/fluori…

> Fluoride lowers IQ in children an average of 15 points, per Harvard meta-analysis. No. Aside from the fact that meta-analyses are primarily a means of identifying areas for direct research because they have a strong tendency to magnify publication bias (among other problems), that's not what the cited piece concludes. Your own quote shows that the conclusion is much weaker, noting that the meta-analysis “found stro…

You're right, it's 7 points. However, that means there are still considerable issues (both medical and ethical) with the mass-ingesting of fluoride, which lends more credibility to Mercola's paranoia than your skepticism, in my opinion. And regardless of that, you are still ignoring all the main issues brought up with TVP.

Re: Impossible Foods has raised $75M for its plant-based burgers

#248

Post by newscracker » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 4:22 PM UTC

spraak wrote: post #157

throwaway2016a wrote: post #56

I am extremely eager to see lab grown meat more so than I am eager to see better meat substitutes become mainstream. However, being a meat eater, since the news of this product came out however many months and years it was, I have been wanting to try it. Which is more than I can say for other meat substitutes.

It's hard for me to understand the excitement for lab meat. Can you explain your interest?

Not GP, but I'm excited about "clean meat" because I believe it has the best chance, over time, to have a huge impact on reducing animal suffering and reducing the environmental damage currently caused by animal agriculture. It'll probably be a lot better for human health too, since controlling what's in it will improve with a higher probability of success.

Re: Impossible Foods has raised $75M for its plant-based burgers

#249

Post by Johnny_Brahms » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 4:47 PM UTC

shanev wrote: post #133

Taek wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure? Cows eat plants. The footprint from cows is largely due to the fact that you need 14 pounds of grain per pound of cow, if I remember correctly. Unless these burgers are somehow taking 14 pounds of grain to produce per pound of burger, I think we're in a better place. That said, eliminating cows I still don't think will help the environment. That freed up land will be bought and used for some other purpo…

Cows don't need grain. Grain feeding is part of industrial meat production that is highly detrimental to the environment. Feeding cows grass (and rotating them) though has the total opposite effect. It creates soil that can hold more water and sequester carbon. So it eliminates the need for grain production because cows simply eat grass while naturally fertilizing it. Huge fan of a carbon tax.

One problem is of course that few places are good enough carbon sinks to make grass fed beef even close to co2 neutral.

A better idea would be less regular manure and more humanure.

Re: Impossible Foods has raised $75M for its plant-based burgers

#250

Post by L_Rahman » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 4:53 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #105

L_Rahman wrote: post #9

I remember reading the original impressions of the Impossible Foods ground meat and thinking it was just media buzz. I promise you it is not. At Momofuku's Ssam Bar in the East Village of NYC, you can order an off menu item called Spicy Pork Sausage and Rice Cakes. It's not really off the menu - the item has simply been around so long and is so well known to regulars that they left it off to make room for new dishes.…

This is a neat comment, but as someone who's been to a couple different Momofuku places (incl. Ssam Bar) but never had that dish: how heavily spiced is it? The dish is inspired (simultaneously) by Mapo Tofu and Bolognese --- it's supposed to literally be Ssam Bar's take on Mapo Tofu --- which suggests to me that the quality of the pork is probably not all that important to the overall dish. A good hamburger, on the o…

You're absolutely correct.

1. It's unlikely that Impossible Foods will ever match the quality of a grass-fed, grain-finished 80/20 chuck + short rib blend from a purveyor like Pat LaFrieda.

2. The dish is heavily spiced and the Impossible Foods product is playing the role of the bolognese. It can hide under the seasoning and spices.

3. I still think the product is valuable. The vast majority of meat product Americans consume meets a much lower bar. I think Impossible Foods already makes a product that's better than the ground meat that goes into a lot of fast food chains. If you didn't tell people, I suspect they'd prefer a Taco Bell or White Castle product made with Impossible Foods instead of the "mix" that they currently use.