What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#241

Post by VLM » Mon, May 15, 2017, 10:51 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #147

I started coding at the age of 10 in the early 80's, using a Timex 2068. My first source of information were the computer provided manuals, with them I got to learn Basic and overall computer architecture. Then back on those days there were lots of books targeted to get kids to learn programming. With them I got to improve my Basic skills, learn Z80 Assembly and enjoy typing Assembly via hexdumps. Later I started rea…

"learn Z80 Assembly"

There was a series of disassembled and commented ROM and OS series named "Journey to the center of the ROM" for the TRS80 family and that was very instructive for me. Sort of like "Lions Commentary on UNIX" but a decade later for Z80 rather than unix v6.

Something to realize is back in the old days even the old timers only had like two years of experience writing Z80 code. And you were limited by memory enough that scalability problems were not an issue. And people with more than 2 years of experience perhaps writing IBM360 assembler were making so much money they had little interest in these Z80 6809 6502 things.

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#242

Post by adrianratnapala » Mon, May 15, 2017, 10:55 PM UTC

alanbernstein wrote: post #232

throwanem wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Experts' Exchange, which was basically an earlier version of Stack Overflow Expert Sex Change was garbage , though. If it hadn't been as terrible as it was throughout its life, Stack Overflow wouldn't have taken off nearly as easily or as well as it did. I mean, I like to grouse as much as the next graybeard over how SO has gone downhill - and it has - but it's still miles and miles better than the metaphorical and…

What's your problem with the current state of SO?

On SO I pride(d) myself on asking good questions. That is formulating the question clearly and precisely was itself a kind of investigation. Often, the question never go finished, because the work of writing it up caused me to solve my original problem.

Probably SO should have weighted question upvotes at least as high as an answer upvote. Now it would take stronger medicine: e.g. pushing questions by people with low rep down the list.

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#243

Post by midnitewarrior » Mon, May 15, 2017, 10:58 PM UTC

You had to figure things out by yourself. It was tiresome, frustrating, but you really understood what you were doing.

There weren't as many technologies around, so you could really invest your time into one or two technologies that were the core of your competency. Spending a lot of time figuring out a problem was an investment in your career because you were certainly committed to using that technology.

Today, it seems like there is a new technology on every project. Frameworks last 2, maybe 3 years unless they hit it big. If you spend a lot of time investing in a technology that quickly loses favor, you've really wasted your time, so cut-and-paste from StackOverflow / Google now makes up the difference.

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#244

Post by khedoros1 » Mon, May 15, 2017, 11:02 PM UTC

hangonhn wrote: post #144

The QBASIC help "file" was really good for its time. That's basically how I learned. That plus a collection of QBASIC programs the nerds at my school passed around and would occasionally add to. Basically, I would open one of those programs up, run it in QBASIC, and if it is awesome, I would try to figure out how it worked. If I came across something I didn't understand, I would pull up the help from QBASIC. My child…

If I'm remembering correctly, QB 1.1's manual was good, and QB 4.5's was amazing, with deeper explanations, example code, and such.

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#245

Post by kls » Mon, May 15, 2017, 11:03 PM UTC

I really miss the days of going to Barns and Nobel and browsing thru programming books for hours to learn a new technology, then buying the best of the books available. It was a different experience that is lost in today's world and it was really only a blink of an eye as far as computing eras go, but it was by far my favorite.

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#246

Post by ioddly » Mon, May 15, 2017, 11:09 PM UTC

brianolson wrote: post #179

a thriving stackoverflow is a sign of underdeveloped primary documentation it's also a sign of a thriving developer base with lots of people interested, but i still want a moment of crankyness about basic questions of "how do I _X_ in _Y_?" where Y's documentation is crap

I've been trying to do a better job of reading through the primary documentation BEFORE I dive in with some library, and quality is indeed widely variable.

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#247

Post by cm2187 » Mon, May 15, 2017, 11:09 PM UTC

throwanem wrote: post #235

alanbernstein wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your problem with the current state of SO?

It's full of people who can't be bothered to do even the most trivial investigation into their own damn bugs - the same trivial "I didn't configure it lol" and "I have no idea what I'm doing, nor interest in developing one, fix my thing for me plz" bugs that the site already has a dozen answers for. It stays that way because volunteer moderators don't want to wade through sewage all day. So it goes. The topic-specifi…

There are also many questions that I asked myself or googled and that I found shot down by overzealous SO moderators before someone could bring some element of response.

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#248

Post by cm2187 » Mon, May 15, 2017, 11:16 PM UTC

jslabovitz wrote: post #69

I'm self-taught, and now in my 50s. I started programming when I was 10, in 1976. In those earliest days of consumer-class computers, there wasn't really a developed market for practical programming books. However, the manuals that came with software or OSes were quite well-written. There were a few magazines, too, like BYTE and Dr. Dobbs Journal, that published source code -- always the best way to learn! It helped,…

I think they key is your dad being a programmer.

My first missed encounter with programming was when I was a teenager in the 90s. I sort of wanted to do more with these machine but wasn't sure where to start. My parents weren't particularly IT savvy (though we had home computers since the Mac SE) and weren't keen for me to do something else than outdoor activities. I still managed to get them to buy me a copy of code warrior, as I kind of understood this was to create software. Then found myself in front of a white text editor. Had never even heard of C and that was a few years before the internet. Never went beyond that until college.

Kids today are spoiled...

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#249

Post by throwanem » Mon, May 15, 2017, 11:18 PM UTC

adrianratnapala wrote: post #242

alanbernstein wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your problem with the current state of SO?

On SO I pride(d) myself on asking good questions. That is formulating the question clearly and precisely was itself a kind of investigation. Often, the question never go finished, because the work of writing it up caused me to solve my original problem. Probably SO should have weighted question upvotes at least as high as an answer upvote. Now it would take stronger medicine: e.g. pushing questions by people with low…

Same. I think I've asked one question ever on SO, and it got no answers - fair enough; I didn't have one, either.

What to do about it, I've no idea. I have the rep for most mod powers, but the Augean stables lack appeal. Beyond that, I wouldn't presume to venture a suggestion.

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#250

Post by soperj » Mon, May 15, 2017, 11:29 PM UTC

adrianratnapala wrote: post #242

alanbernstein wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your problem with the current state of SO?

On SO I pride(d) myself on asking good questions. That is formulating the question clearly and precisely was itself a kind of investigation. Often, the question never go finished, because the work of writing it up caused me to solve my original problem. Probably SO should have weighted question upvotes at least as high as an answer upvote. Now it would take stronger medicine: e.g. pushing questions by people with low…

I feel like you should still ask the question, and then answer yourself shortly afterwards. It'll help others in similar situations, and you might just get a better answer from someone else.