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India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

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Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#241

Post by dang »

kahrkunne wrote: post #161
redsummer wrote: post #126

Hinduism is a big problem. The Ganges is literally a river of shit - it has 120 times the safe level of fecal matter. Yet Hindus regard it as purifying and it's considered holy to have a dip in it. When you have a culture like that, it's going to be hard to persuade people to not shit in the water they drink.

True. The Ganges is probably one of the most disgusting things on earth. If your religion involves worshipping (and drinking of) a river full of poop and bloated human corpses, I couldn't justify it as civilized even if I tried.

We've banned this account for repeatedly violating the site guidelines. Flamewars are not welcome here, especially not the religious and racial sort, which are poisonous and have no place on HN. Unsubstantive and uncivil comments, which you've posted more than your share of, are also out of line.

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Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#242

Post by throw_away_elec »

avar wrote: post #16

> Unfortunately, in many places, it’s not > feasible to lay down sewer pipes or build > treatment facilities. [...] But giving > people access to toilets isn’t enough. You > also have to persuade them to use the > toilets. I can't find it now, but there was a news video making the rounds a year or two ago that showed that this problem is much more fundamental than that. It showed a Indians in a tiny village who were…

>> "Among other things, they contain the world's earliest known system of flush toilets." [1]

>> "With a number of courtyard houses having both a washing platform and a dedicated toilet / waste disposal hole. The toilet holes would be flushed by emptying a jar of water, drawn from the house's central well, through a clay brick pipe and into a shared brick drain" [1]

Amazing. This was about the Indus Valley Civilization in 3300–1300 BCE.

It's interesting to note that how much a civilization, like Rome after the collapse as shown in the below thread, can lose much of cultural or technical advances it made earlier.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanitation_of_the_Indus_Valley...

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#243

Post by crucialfelix »

escape_goat wrote: post #218
mostlyskeptical wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even that link you posted says >Although most people with poor systems knew they had problems and wanted to correct them And also states that most of the problem is due to money (or lack of). In India even most of those in rural areas with toilets don't use them. [1] Further, even in urban areas of those those with access to toilets, 7.5% choose open defecation on the streets instead. Pretending that people that want…

Saying that people who have access to a public squat toilet in a rural area have "access to [indoor] plumbing but don't use it" might also be taken as disingenuous, but I suspect you were mainly not thinking carefully. No one fails to recognize the convenience of indoor plumbing. Running water right in your home is incredibly convenient. With a properly constructed drain system, it means you can also have a completel…

The most horrific toilets I've ever used in my life were public toilets in India. Overflowing. They cost 2Rs as well. Even in hotels the toilets are pretty gruesome.

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#244

Post by throw_away_elec »

chetanahuja wrote: post #56
msound wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Narendra Modi is the Prime Minister of India. He has a very interesting (and controversial) history. He grew up selling tea at a railway station and now he's Prime Minister of the largest democracy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narendra_Modi

> He has a very interesting (and controversial) history Sure does. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Gujarat_riots

From the wikipedia entry you quoted:

>> "In 2012, Modi was cleared of complicity in the violence by a Special Investigation Team (SIT) appointed by the Supreme Court of India. The SIT also rejected claims that the state government had not done enough to prevent the riots."

>> "In April 2014, the Supreme Court expressed satisfaction over the SIT's investigations in nine cases related to the violence, and rejected as "baseless" a plea contesting the SIT report."

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#245

Post by shard972 »

tomaskafka wrote: post #237
avar wrote: post #16

> Unfortunately, in many places, it’s not > feasible to lay down sewer pipes or build > treatment facilities. [...] But giving > people access to toilets isn’t enough. You > also have to persuade them to use the > toilets. I can't find it now, but there was a news video making the rounds a year or two ago that showed that this problem is much more fundamental than that. It showed a Indians in a tiny village who were…

Check out how we, the 'wise modern civilization' splash all our chemicals and shit into the rivers and oceans, and then eat fish from there. I bet we will be looked at as 'these savage guys were totally dumb, look at them, it's unbelievable' about 50 - 150 years later. Also, you americans take away your babies from your mothers after few weeks, putting them to a cold hearted institutions, making them frustrated for l…

I get your point but at least you get the 1% GDP gain, what upside is there to shitting in your drinking water? It's few steps closer?

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#246

Post by nvarsj »

graycat wrote: post #100
avar wrote: post #16

> Unfortunately, in many places, it’s not > feasible to lay down sewer pipes or build > treatment facilities. [...] But giving > people access to toilets isn’t enough. You > also have to persuade them to use the > toilets. I can't find it now, but there was a news video making the rounds a year or two ago that showed that this problem is much more fundamental than that. It showed a Indians in a tiny village who were…

Don't need much in the way of sewer pipes. I live in the US, in NY, 70 miles north of Wall Street, in a house with two bathtubs, four sinks, three toilets, one washing machine, and one dish washer, with nearly no use of "sewer pipes". Right, no city sewer. Instead there is some PVC pipe, cheap, super simple to work with, darned rugged, and, presto, bingo, a big concrete box in the ground just behind the main piece of…

You realise the population of India is 1.3 billion? In a land mass that is 1/3rd the size of the United States. So while it's pretty cool what you've done, septic systems are never going to be practical for India's needs.

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#247

Post by Kluny »

mjevans wrote: post #84
staticassertion wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first or second chapter of Diffusion of Innovation covers a case where a health organization official tried to convince people to boil their water. No one did it. The concept of "germs" was so foreign to them, and their beliefs about water were already so ingrained. It was a complete failure. It seems obvious to say "if you drink dirty water you will get sick" but you're assuming that people can make so many conn…

That's a case for bending the truth. Find out how to explain it in their existing culture. Curses, uncleanness, etc. There's probably SOMETHING responsible for misfortune, death, and disease. Claim that there is a method which helps battle this, it involves purifying the water with a strong fire for this duration of an hour-glass. Once it is cooled it is, for a short time, safe to use.

This opens the door for unintended side effects and cargo-cult behaviour. Not recommended.

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#249

Post by Kluny »

anigbrowl wrote: post #166
paganel wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What the parent described is probably due to other external factors (e.g. lack of choice, land restrictions or other things) that constrain behavior. It's also a cultural thing. Just the other day I was minding my own business on a relatively central street in the European Eastern capital where I live and all of a sudden I see a Roma lady, in her early 50s, reasonably well dressed, coming towards the lightning pole…

I can't help observing that it's very common for men to take a leak on the street, especially if they've been drinking. It's not the most sanitary habit but it's not especially harmful either, and I don't feel anything different about a woman squatting to take a leak either. Public defecation, though, I have no hesitation about shaming someone for unless it's some sort of emergency.

Public urination is illegal in most places, you get a fine. I wouldn't call it common, I'd call it something that happens in alleyways, under cover of darkness, and only when the man in question is desperate and judgement impaired. In the city, at least. In the country everyone pees when they have to, gender whatever.

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#250

Post by capex »

thevardanian wrote: post #230
staticassertion wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first or second chapter of Diffusion of Innovation covers a case where a health organization official tried to convince people to boil their water. No one did it. The concept of "germs" was so foreign to them, and their beliefs about water were already so ingrained. It was a complete failure. It seems obvious to say "if you drink dirty water you will get sick" but you're assuming that people can make so many conn…

I don't think that maybe necessarily the case as these very people will boil milk before drinking it. It is basic practice in rural India to boil milk before consuming it even if it was straight from the cow. So I find it extremely odd that these very people couldn't connect the dots and make the same leap onto impurity of water.

There is a cultural/ religious myth in the sub-continent that fresh, fast-flowing water is always safe to drink. This might have contributed to the failure of this leap.
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