Programmers are most likely to work from home • Hacker News Board

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#241

Post by Bluestrike2 » Wed, Apr 12, 2017, 5:56 PM UTC

chrisan wrote: post #195

NumberSix wrote: post #112

The article does not discuss the impact of the open office movement. I've worked from home, in actual offices, in cubicles both cramped and spacious, and open offices. It can be quite difficult to focus at home due to various distractions, especially if you do not have a separate room or area for work. It is difficult to separate work and non-work with a home office. There are a variety of communications issues with…

My problem with an office or open office is not the noise, I can put on headphones and be fine, but is the actual interruptions. In an open office it is obviously much easier for someone to just lean over or look around their monitor and grab your attention, but having a private office with a door is still prone to someone knocking (or walking in if not closed) Working from home, people can email, chat, or leave a ph…

I wouldn't discount that last reason. There's some research suggesting that friendships between coworkers can greatly increase worker engagement, productivity, and satisfaction.[0][1][2] And a self-report study from LinkedIn suggests that workers perceive workplace friendships as beneficial for both themselves and their work, for what that's worth.[3] Of course, it can also blow up in your face and do the opposite, occasionally slowing down more productive workers as they match their speed to those of their less productive friends when it comes to individual work.[4] That study looked at fruitpickers, but it could be relevant to the tech industry as well.

Paradoxically, at least in the US, we're seeing a trend towards fewer workplace friendships and greater detachment.[5] I/O (industrial and organizational) psychologists have a lot of interesting interpretations for those trends. Almost across the board, employment is far more transitory today than in past decades, so there's less pressure to invest time in meaningful relationships at work. And we're so connected nowadays that it's easier than ever to preserve relationships in some form (regardless of whether they're preserved, or we just believe they are), so we don't feel the need to generate replacements as much.

Having done a lot of freelance work myself for a couple of years, if I'm being entirely honest with myself, this is one of the disadvantages at times. I enjoy getting to work on different projects, but there's something to be said for getting to focus on something with the same team. Even if open offices and talkative coworkers can get in the way at times :).

0. https://hbr.org/2013/07/we-all-need-friends-at-work

1. http://www.gallup.com/services/178514/state-american-workpla... (behind a form)

2. https://www.fastcompany.com/3051290/why-having-friends-at-wo...

3. https://blog.linkedin.com/2014/07/08/work-bffs

4. http://www.lse.ac.uk/website-archive/newsAndMedia/news/archi...

5. https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/06/opinion/sunday/adam-grant...

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#242

Post by ergothus » Wed, Apr 12, 2017, 5:57 PM UTC

Arizhel wrote: post #221

ergothus wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what people miss most often is that this is NOT a "one solution fits all" kind of thing. For some office cultures one is better, and for some people one is better. I myself am very easily distracted, and I'm far more productive at home, where I have a private office set to my preferences, including sound (this sounds ridiculous, but my ear cartilage is sensitive, so I can't wear earbuds and over-the-ear headp…

>this sounds ridiculous, but my ear cartilage is sensitive, so I can't wear earbuds and over-the-ear headphones are only comfortable for an hour or two Can't you get some full-size headphones which don't even touch your ears? That should eliminate that problem. I don't think it's too unusual to find it uncomfortable to have stuff pressing onto/into your ear cartilage for hours a day.

Those are the over-the-ear ones I was talking about. (I look pretty dorky with my on-the-runway looking headphones) They DO touch the ear, though they don't crush it, which is why I'm usually good for a couple of hours.

> I don't think it's too unusual to find it uncomfortable to have stuff pressing onto/into your ear cartilage for hours a day.

The ubiquity of earbuds says otherwise. I'm genuinely jealous of people - they can listen more places, with less inconvenience, and with less expense. Still though, this is my flaw, not theirs.

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#243

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Apr 12, 2017, 5:59 PM UTC

scandox wrote: post #18

eddieh wrote: post #12

I like working from my office. I don't understand people that like working from home. Possible confounding variable: I live exactly two blocks from my office and don't have to commute. Perhaps, in actuality, people don't like to commute?

I agree. I like a clear separation of activities. I dislike phone communication and like to discuss ideas in person and/or on a whiteboard if at all possible. On the other hand my commute is 11 minutes. So that makes it easy.

[deleted]

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#244

Post by convolvatron » Wed, Apr 12, 2017, 5:59 PM UTC

geebee wrote: post #132

JamesBarney wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was recently some evidence that open offices led to reduced collaboration because a real office means asking someone a question disturbs one instead of 20 people. So people end up asking less questions, and interacting with there co-workers less.

I read about that as well. I also think that there are different work cultures based on what you have to do. Someone who works in sales may be on the phone quite often. Same for a lot of managers, tech support, people who do demos and presentations. The problem certainly isn't that they make noise, they need to! And because of the nature of their jobs, they tend to see hallway conversations and joking around to be be…

how about access to a whiteboard and a place to talk

I can't understand why thats so hard

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#245

Post by jt2190 » Wed, Apr 12, 2017, 6:01 PM UTC

jt2190 wrote: post #98

grardb wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment doesn't read like it was written by a "humbleMouse" :) I don't think this is a healthy attitude to have towards less experienced developers. Literally every experienced developer was once inexperienced, and I think for the vast majority of people, it's hard to become a senior or even intermediate developer without some mentorship along the way. I believe this is especially true for aspects outside of wri…

> I think for the vast majority of people, it's hard to become a senior or even intermediate developer without some [on the job] mentorship along the way. Doesn't this assume that the only mentorship (edit: We're really talking about "job training") is peer mentorship? What about classes, self-training, etc? Why should the onus be placed 100% on the senior employee? Why no onus on the junior employee?

Downvoters: Consider the context of this thread... Imagine you're asked to train your peers for no extra compensation or credit, and you're still expected to produce 100% of the typical work output. At the same time, your peers are compensated at the same rate, are considered equally for raises and promotions, but are not expected to train anyone.

I understand that senior devs might mentor juniors, or that experienced devs might train up newbies, but to expect one dev to "step up" to mentor teammates without some kind of recognition or compensation is not reasonable. (edit: Especially if those teammates are a long way from being qualified to do the work.)

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#246

Post by uniformlyrandom » Wed, Apr 12, 2017, 6:01 PM UTC

return0 wrote: post #199

Arizhel wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone is good at having the discipline to get work done at home and to separate home and work while they're at home. Also, people with young children are naturally going to have a big problem. Lots of people who try it complain that their spouses and kids won't leave them alone at home, thinking that popping in isn't a big deal even though it interrupts their focus. And not everyone can afford a home that give…

> most people in Silicon Valley can't seem to afford anything bigger What's the point of living in an ultra-expensive region if you work from home?

1. you get paid well.

2. silicon valley is a nice place to live in.

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#247

Post by jordanlev » Wed, Apr 12, 2017, 6:04 PM UTC

So many comments in this thread are comparing working at the office vs. working from home -- but there is a 3rd option, which is to rent your own office! I do this, it's not very expensive (a few hundred dollars a month -- if I get 2 extra hours of productivity per month then it's paid for itself).

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#248

Post by CydeWeys » Wed, Apr 12, 2017, 6:08 PM UTC

bjourne wrote: post #233

CydeWeys wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very myopic view of your job responsibilities. Presuambly you had mentors yourself earlier in your career that helped you out greatly. I know I did. If they'd all been working from home, and thus were unavailable for the kind of help that they gave me, I might not be where I am today. Helping along the next generation of coders is part of your job description. Most employers would rather have a good programm…

What's wrong with asking questions over email? Is physical presence actually needed for effective mentoring? Your view taken to the extreme would mean that this thread itself is dysfunctional because people aren't face-to-face and instead discussing on a message board.

There are a variety of situations for which direct face-to-face communication, or two people huddling in front of the same computer, is the best low-latency, high-bandwidth mode of communication. I use email all the time, but it's not always the optimal mode of communication. Just yesterday I spent an hour mentoring the most junior member of my team through our tricky dependency injection setup by sitting in front of the same computer with him. It would have been harder remotely.

I don't find your slippery slope argument compelling.

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#249

Post by thethirdone » Wed, Apr 12, 2017, 6:08 PM UTC

shrimp_emoji wrote: post #159

onion2k wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to teach all your shitty college grads how to actually code. Only a very inexperienced developer would actually want to work with people who aren't as good as they are. I genuinely want to be the worst person on my team. I'm pretty good, so that would mean we could do some amazing stuff.

>Only a very inexperienced developer would actually want to work with people who aren't as good as they are. Not true. >I genuinely want to be the worst person on my team. I feel the same way, but only because I've adjusted to the role and enjoy relentlessly leeching knowledge from the top performers.

>> Only a very inexperienced developer would actually want to work with people who aren't as good as they are.

> Not true.

Could you explain your position on this?

I feel that perhaps "inexperienced" is the wrong adjective, but rather developers whose ego or lack of desire to progress would want to work with people who aren't as good as them. "Inexperienced" is a decent approximation of that description as experienced developers with no desire to progress would be rare.

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#250

Post by pasbesoin » Wed, Apr 12, 2017, 6:09 PM UTC

JamesBarney wrote: post #122

NumberSix wrote: post #112

The article does not discuss the impact of the open office movement. I've worked from home, in actual offices, in cubicles both cramped and spacious, and open offices. It can be quite difficult to focus at home due to various distractions, especially if you do not have a separate room or area for work. It is difficult to separate work and non-work with a home office. There are a variety of communications issues with…

There was recently some evidence that open offices led to reduced collaboration because a real office means asking someone a question disturbs one instead of 20 people. So people end up asking less questions, and interacting with there co-workers less.

I'll just add a comment noting the importance of the quality of the collaboration, not just the quantity of it.

Companies don't want to hear it. I've been quite lauded for my work. After which, I communicate what I need: I'm not asking for more money yadayadayada, just a quiet workplace.

At which point, I am reminded, in one way or another, that I am, however tasty, just veal.

P.S. Pick your home carefully. I ended up with a series of extremely noisy neighbors that left me really between a rock and a hard place.

Friends and family simply saying, 'You'll get used to it.' Until they finally really heard for themselves.

Noise has become an omni-present pollution in U.S. society. I suspect its contribution to overall stress is vastly under-estimated and under-appreciated.