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Leaked email from United Airlines CEO blames passenger for violent removal

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Re: Leaked email from United Airlines CEO blames passenger for violent removal

#241
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do these acronyms mean? Google is not helping me.

Private Pilot's License? ASEL is a commercial pilot's license, apparently.

Nope: https://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/acs/media/priva... taloft explains it well. You can have a PPL or CPL (or ATP) in the ASEL, AMEL, ASES, AMES, etc.

Re: Leaked email from United Airlines CEO blames passenger for violent removal

#242
post #237
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do these acronyms mean? Google is not helping me.

Airplane, single-engine land. It's a rating added on to a pilot certificate, and says what kind af aircraft you may fly. The "land" part means an airplane that lands on the ground, which is different from "sea", for airplanes that can land on water. Also, note that minimally you would need a commercial certificate to fly for hire. Even then, there are some restrictions on how you can do that. A private allows you to…

My comment was tongue in cheek but you can share expenses if you are traveling for a "common purpose" and not "holding out". In other words, fly with friends to somewhere you all want to go together. You basically just can't create an airplane Uber (naturally, people have tried).

Re: Leaked email from United Airlines CEO blames passenger for violent removal

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another way of looking at this would be to point out that internet service and air travel are the only two industries where it is legally allowed to sell people something you know in advance you can't provide. In a sane world, overbooking would be at best illegal, the airline would realize the savings from the flight they were paid for but didn't actually have to carry the 200 pounds of passenger + luggage. (That's a…

The airline has to provide you passage. They don't have to provide you passage on the flight you reserved. By doing this the system works more efficiently and your ticket cost is lower.

> They don't have to provide you passage on the flight you reserved.

You must be joking.

Re: Leaked email from United Airlines CEO blames passenger for violent removal

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The plane absolutely could have left, entirely full of ticketed passengers. United held the plane to force this scenario -- since they wanted to replace ticketed paid passengers with their own staff to fly for free.

Their "staff" was a flight crew that needed to get to Louisville or another plane full of 200 passengers would be stuck on the tarmac unable to fly.

Ah, and UA didn't knew it before the people boarded? So, not only they are morons, but they are totally incompetents.

I have not seen such ridiculous defence of something indefendible like you're doing on this thread.

Re: Leaked email from United Airlines CEO blames passenger for violent removal

#245
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true. UA has a Contract of Carriage that specifically enumerates the possible reasons they can use to deny boarding or remove someone from a flight. There is no "catch-all" in it. https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriag...

"Force Majeure and Other Unforeseeable Conditions"

> Whenever such action is necessary or advisable by reason of weather or other conditions beyond UA’s control including, but not limited to, acts of God, force majeure, strikes, civil commotions, embargoes, wars, hostilities, terrorist activities, or disturbances, whether actual, threatened, or reported.

I think that this case was about "acts of God" because I don't find any other reason to be force majeure.

Re: Leaked email from United Airlines CEO blames passenger for violent removal

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another way of looking at this would be to point out that internet service and air travel are the only two industries where it is legally allowed to sell people something you know in advance you can't provide. In a sane world, overbooking would be at best illegal, the airline would realize the savings from the flight they were paid for but didn't actually have to carry the 200 pounds of passenger + luggage. (That's a…

Another way of looking at this would be to point out that internet service and air travel are the only two industries where it is legally allowed to sell people something you know in advance you can't provide. There's also fractional-reserve banking, hotels, old-style phones, online / mail-order shopping ("sorry, your stuff is in back order"), etc. Statistical arbitrage is a thing.

Hotels tell you when they're full and stop accepting bookings, nobody is selling anything at FR banking, everywhere I shop online tells me when their stuff is known out of stock, and so on.

Air travel does none of these things. They know they've sold more than they can provide, and do nothing to tell people until the last possible minute just to make a buck.

Re: Leaked email from United Airlines CEO blames passenger for violent removal

#247
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true. UA has a Contract of Carriage that specifically enumerates the possible reasons they can use to deny boarding or remove someone from a flight. There is no "catch-all" in it. https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriag...

"Force Majeure and Other Unforeseeable Conditions"

I believe this is almost the definition of a foreseeable condition!

Re: Leaked email from United Airlines CEO blames passenger for violent removal

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the alternative to commercial airlines for someone who isn't crazy rich?

PPL ASEL will cost you about $8k (doable if you really want it) and a 172@$105/hr wet to travel around in at 110kts. Take two fearless friends and you have yourself a private airline.

Yeah, that isn't going to work very well for getting me from California to my family in New York.

Re: Leaked email from United Airlines CEO blames passenger for violent removal

#249
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the only response police have to non-compliance has always been violence. It's always been against the law not to comply with their orders. And it seems obvious that they will choose the sort that's less risky to the officer (taser, pepper spray), because each and every one of them knows the stories of the officers who got hurt. So yeah, if the police tell you to do something, you should expect to do it. It's n…

Again, an absurd and grandiose interpretation. You do not need to comply with the police in "Whatever they say." If a Police officer violates the law, you cannot comply with them. If they use physical intimidation, they are not acting as an officer of the law. You are a citizen with an obligation to comply to the legal extent, not a slave to the whims of officers.

> You do not need to comply with the police in "Whatever they say."

In what sense? You can say that you only have to comply with lawful orders, but unless the cop believes their own order to be unlawful, which is unlikely, they're going to force you to comply. And if you're wrong about the order being lawful, you will get hit with resisting arrest, which will only make life harder for you in fighting it.

If you want to put a stop to it, do so in the courtroom. Do it on the streets and you'll be tasered and accomplish nothing.

Re: Leaked email from United Airlines CEO blames passenger for violent removal

#250
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the only response police have to non-compliance has always been violence. It's always been against the law not to comply with their orders. And it seems obvious that they will choose the sort that's less risky to the officer (taser, pepper spray), because each and every one of them knows the stories of the officers who got hurt. So yeah, if the police tell you to do something, you should expect to do it. It's n…

The difference is in the rate of escalation. In the US, non-compliance can lead to violence really, really quickly.

On average, the people being arrested are more likely to attack the cops. If, on average, people went quietly with the police and fought this in the court system, things would change for the better.
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