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Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

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Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#241

Post by dagw »

xienze wrote: post #164
intoverflow2 wrote: post #153

What on earth is the point in working hard and earning a large salary if there is sod all to spend it on? If I were living in a small country town I'd be choosing a far more chilled job than I currently have because there isn't anything to spend the extra income on in a small town.

Nicer house (or just a house, period), vacations, toys, earlier retirement, children...

I think it depends where you are in you life. I spent my 20s in an expensive city earning good money and 'wasting' it all on good old hedonistic fun and adventures. I'm now spending my 30s living in the suburbs as a dull respectable member the (upper)middle class. There is no way I would have wanted to live my 20s like I'm living my 30s, nor would I particularly want to live my 30s like I lived my 20s (even though I sometimes do miss it).

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#242

Post by mediaserf »

If you really can be remote, a smaller city can be nice. I live in Cleveland, right on the lake. It is a functional city and gives me a longer runway for my startup. As more of the workforce becomes truly remote, I believe we'll see a resurgence of small towns. Some smaller cities are putting fiber in already planning for urban refugees from larger cities.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#244

Post by verbify »

codingmyway wrote: post #201

I'm contemplating this right now. I work in London because the extra money over working elsewhere in the UK more than pays the rent and I know people here now. I if lived further out and commuted then the cost of transport would almost wipe out the rental saving and I'd have two hours+ commute everyday instead of a healthier cycle through the park. I could get a remote job for half the money and that would be worth i…

If there's a financial crisis:

* You're more likely to lose your job or find it difficult to switch jobs, which will impact your earnings * Banks are less likely to give easy lines of credit, making it difficult to get a mortgage

Timing the housing market is as difficult as timing any market - time in the market beats timing the market.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#245

Post by Muromec »

sidlls wrote: post #207
Anderkent wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the idea is that you take a remote job based in (rich country), get paid like a (rich country) developer, but only have costs of a developer in (poor country).

And that idea is just that: an idea. It happens rarely enough that putting forward as normal requires some proof. The company I work for uses remote workers from Ukraine and India. I know for a fact their salaries are less than 1/3 domestic salaries. This is in my experience what is actually normal. Pretty good for the cost of living, but they aren't saving as much as I am unless a good portion of their expenses are…

>I know for a fact their salaries are less than 1/3 domestic salaries.

What are absolute numbers?

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#246

Post by uiri »

canadiancreed wrote: post #151

I keep hearing that I can work anywhere as a developer. I wish employers would get that message. I've had to move to expensive cities not because I want too (the exact opposite actually), but because if I don't I don't get work. Employers in Canada are hostile to remote for the most part, and working for companies outside of this country, you run into a lot of "remote....but not for you"

Employers in Canada don't actually need (or don't actually want) top developer talent. If they did, they would try to compete with US companies on salary (among other things).

I agree that "remote (US only)" is completely baffling. Hiring from a global talent pool instead of a local one is a huge advantage. Yes, such an employer has to deal with tax headaches but if they want to hire locally from a global talent pool, they will have to deal with immigration headaches which are much worse for the US.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#247

Post by seanmcdirmid »

Muromec wrote: post #141
prostoalex wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're a fantastic developer in Ukraine, India or China and have very limited needs (compared to a guy with a family and kids), your disposable monthly income net of taxes, rent and commute expenses is still likely to be higher in Silicon Valley than Ukraine, India or China. A rational decision then would be to move to Silicon Valley arbitraging the costs as much as you can (living with roommates, commuting by Cal…

>If you're a fantastic developer in Ukraine, India or China and have very limited needs (compared to a guy with a family and kids), your disposable monthly income net of taxes, rent and commute expenses is still likely to be higher in Silicon Valley than Ukraine, India or China. No it would not. Nothing can beat sub 500 USD apartment, 5% tax rate and 3 cents for subway ticket

That isn't china, definitely.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#248

Post by dsmithatx »

My boss asked me the other day what my long term career goals are. I said I do not aspire to move up into management. I just want to move to a cheaper city or maybe live on the road and work from somewhere not so expensive. I used to want to live in a nice tech city but, then I had kids.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#249

Post by taway_1212 »

Luuseens wrote: post #204
taway_1212 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're a fantastic developer in Ukraine, India or China and have very limited needs (compared to a guy with a family and kids), your disposable monthly income net of taxes, rent and commute expenses is still likely to be higher in Silicon Valley than Ukraine, India or China. I feel like I'm rather average developer, and live in Poland (more expensive than the countries you listed), and still managed to save over…

Can I pick your brain on this? I'm from Latvia, but currently based in London. Currently looking to move back and move in to working fully remotely. Were you contracting for US companies in your previous remote job?

Sure. I only work remotely for US companies, as they seem to offer the best rates/salaries.

My expertise is Scala, "Big Data", some machine learning and AI, plus generic Java/Spring/etc experience. My last job used only Scala+Play from that list. They were willing to hire remote people from across the world because (I assume) it would cost even more to hire experienced Scala devs in SF.

BTW if you care about saving money then London's contracting market is IMO even better than working remotely for US firms. It's worse now with the pound going to the toilet after brexit referendum, and will probably soon be only a memory for us foreigners though.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#250

Post by geff82 »

cylinder wrote: post #224
geff82 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I personally there is nothing wrong with being able to buy a visa. Many people in a country don't pay few taxes in their life. So when someone comes and invests a good amount, it is ok to honor this with visa or passport. Would just be cool if every country would allow easier immigration for ordinary people, too.

No, it's not okay, it reduces citizenship and community to a dollar value, which is just more neoliberalism. It doesn't pay the government anything either - for eb5 investor commonly makes a profit, and only has to employ ten Americans at full time minimum wage (not much tax there). The immigrants income is usually left back home (mainly China) and they don't declare it in the US since it's out of reach of the IRS. M…

So you would rather not let them create the 10 jobs (which, compared to many other countries, is quite much)? I mean, they do not only have to "create" them and leave empty, they have to find real working people for them. So even if they were minimum wage, I guess American software architects would not take them. At least in the job market, those "evil" investors have to be somehow competitive (you get what you pay for). And what about those who create a bigger business with bigger salaries? Should they all stay in the home country?
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