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iPad 9.7‑inch

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Re: iPad 9.7‑inch

#241

Post by somestag »

nkkollaw wrote: post #177
JohnnyConatus wrote: post #89

There is a legendary story about how Steve Jobs, upon his return to Apple, drastically cut-down the number of models that they offer. How on earth have they forgotten that lesson? Trying to figure out the differences between the 9.7" iPad and iPad pro is not easy, and regardless, it makes it harder to buy.

Sure, but he cut stuff like printers, cameras, and other crazy crap they used to make. Even when he was still alive they had different-sized iPods, iPads, and more. Computers have always come in different sizes: 13", 15", and 17". What is the difference between a 13" and a 15"? Does it make it harder to buy? Perhaps, but you wouldn't kill the 15" just so people don't get confused.

Multiple models are fine, so long as you have clear signaling. As you point out, it's not terribly hard for the consumer to tell the difference between 13", 15", etc.

Usually it's not that easy, and tech releases are shockingly hard to understand, and in my opinion most of the ambiguities are pure laziness. Since the topic at hand is Apple, let's pick out some examples from their small'ish product line:

* There's no way to know, without doing extra research, that the iPhone 'S' suffix means "better." 'S' could easily mean "small." The 'C' suffix is even more ambiguous.

* The iPhone SE is probably the most ambiguously named product they've released in years. Now it's even worse, because once you know that the SE stands for "Special Edition," releases like the iPhone 7 (RED) Special Edition make it even harder to understand where the SE fits in.

* Apple still sells MacBook Airs, except they made the MacBook do what the Air used to do and they've all but discontinued Airs.

* They're advertising the iPad 9.7", which is just the newest version of the iPad, except they already have an iPad Pro 9.7", so if you search for 9.7" on Google or look around Apple's store you mostly see mostly results for the Pro 9.7". In fact on the buy iPad 9.7" page doesn't even say 9.7" anywhere except when referencing the Pro.

Of course Apple isn't the only tech company that does this; they just used to be one of the better ones, and now they're slowly giving up that advantage. The more technical a company thinks its userbase is, the lazier it gets with naming. Computer components, for example, have names that are so useless you basically have to infer their positioning by their MSRP. (Spec sheets are only marginally helpful; your only real option is to search for benchmarks.) This is not a good thing; everyone benefits from clearer naming conventions. Many companies just don't think it's important, for some reason.

Re: iPad 9.7‑inch

#242

Post by dsacco »

jsjohnst wrote: post #223
dsacco wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You run multiple virtual machines simultaneously and 16GB of RAM doesn't feel slow to you? They must have seriously optimized the hardware to the point that the RAM goes farther. Running multiple VMs on my 2015 MBP with 16GB RAM is a nonstarter. How much memory are you devoting to each VM, and how much do you allocate for overhead on the host system? I'm spoiled though - these days I spend most of my time on a machin…

As someone who has a similar desktop (128gb RAM w/ 12 core 3.3ghz Xeon Mac Pro) and the aforementioned late 2016 MBP w/ touchbar, I can definitively state you're being hyperbolic. Last week I noticed I had Android Studio, Xcode 8.3b4, Xcode, IntelliJ, VMWare w/ Windows 7 Enterprise running Simplicity Studio and IAR Embedded Workbench, and Adobe Photoshop all at once. I was happily running along just fine without real…

Are you talking about a 2015 MBP or the 2016 with touchbar in the second paragraph? I honestly can't imagine all of that running on my 2015 MBP.

Re: iPad 9.7‑inch

#243

Post by snuxoll »

estsauver wrote: post #41
awjr wrote: post #7

I'd almost hoped they would have released a refreshed Macbook Pro range. I realise they are unlikely to recognise the joy and immense pleasure working on a MBP has brought me over the years, with the previous MBP being the pinnacle. Sadly I see the current MBP as something I will not be buying and will more than likely move back to a high end windows laptop.

Can I recommend the Lenovo P50? I switched, and it's incredible. I have 64GB of ram and a xenon processor. It's incredible. It's not as sleep as the mac, but I spend so much less time waiting. I never have to think about "should I close down this VM/android emulator" etc. I have more RAM then I had hard drive space on my laptop in 2010.

The P50 is pretty impressive, especially compared to my older W540 which is a brick. We just ordered one for a new-hire on my team, and we'll probably end up replacing the W540/W541's over the next 18 months as everyone becomes due for a hardware refresh.

Re: iPad 9.7‑inch

#244

Post by tptacek »

dmix wrote: post #131
marvindanig wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also there was reason why Steve Jobs was against all tablet sizes except one. At the time Apple was going after revolutionizing the education market and the 9.7" iPad1/2 fit the bill for that purpose exactly. Then came the iPad mini whose sole purpose was to increase business bottom-line… and then a few more models based on other focuses or potential uses. Meh. Moral of story: Do not destroy the initial momentum and…

Current iPad sizes: - iPad Pro 12.9" - iPad Pro 9.7" - iPad 9.7" - iPad Mini 4 8" (edit: thanks pdpi/trymas) It really should just be iPad (9.7) or iPad Pro (12.9) should it not? Now the customer has to decide between two 9.7 models with not so obvious differences between the two? And now there are two (edit: three) different iPad pages on the sales website you have to go through. This changes the immediate conversat…

No? I have a 9.7 Pro. I have the Pro because it's one of the best tablet solutions on the market. I actively do not want a 12.9" tablet, and a non-Pro doesn't support the Apple Pencil.

I think what we're seeing here is not so complicated: it's that customers have strong size preferences, and that they're often orthogonal to their price sensitivities.

Re: iPad 9.7‑inch

#245

Post by remlov »

tptacek wrote: post #236
arihant wrote: post #205

I'm extremely put off by Apple line up getting frustratingly confusing. The devil is in the details here. There was a time, where you could simply trust that an Apple product is built like a tank, that a technology once introduced (like, say, glass screens, or force touch) will always at least be default in the upcoming models. But it is frustrating that Apple started removing fundamental features in a random fashion…

Wait, what? What's "Staingate"? My screen isn't glass? I'm confused. I took a (1 generation older) rMBP to the Apple Store a few months back to get a keyboard replaced. I had a stuck pixel or two (I'd dropped it about 30-40 times) and the guy at the store told me there was a screen coating issue (he pointed to the black side of the screen) and said I could get a free screen replacement if I wanted it. Is that "Staing…

Different problem, but probably why it was still offered to you: http://www.staingate.org/

Re: iPad 9.7‑inch

#246

Post by jsjohnst »

dsacco wrote: post #242
jsjohnst wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has a similar desktop (128gb RAM w/ 12 core 3.3ghz Xeon Mac Pro) and the aforementioned late 2016 MBP w/ touchbar, I can definitively state you're being hyperbolic. Last week I noticed I had Android Studio, Xcode 8.3b4, Xcode, IntelliJ, VMWare w/ Windows 7 Enterprise running Simplicity Studio and IAR Embedded Workbench, and Adobe Photoshop all at once. I was happily running along just fine without real…

Are you talking about a 2015 MBP or the 2016 with touchbar in the second paragraph? I honestly can't imagine all of that running on my 2015 MBP.

2016 w/ touchbar. I've done similarly heavy workloads on a 2015 MBP with same RAM and it was "ok", but certainly noticeable. I think the biggest contributing factor is likely SSD speed, but that's just a guess.

Re: iPad 9.7‑inch

#247

Post by simonh »

leggomylibro wrote: post #155
anjc wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using an iPad (with external keyboard) to even type a simple document is an exercise in masochism. Fair play if you enjoyed it, but something like a Surface makes far more sense for these types of uses.

This is why I've been evangelizing Chromebooks recently; they run android apps now, so if you get a small flip-folding one, it's basically a tablet with a hinged keyboard built in. And a linux chroot that can surface X windows to chrome browser tabs, if you're willing to turn on developer mode.

What model do you use? How well does the Android app support work?

Re: iPad 9.7‑inch

#248

Post by tajen »

steeleduncan wrote: post #200
nkkollaw wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but he cut stuff like printers, cameras, and other crazy crap they used to make. Even when he was still alive they had different-sized iPods, iPads, and more. Computers have always come in different sizes: 13", 15", and 17". What is the difference between a 13" and a 15"? Does it make it harder to buy? Perhaps, but you wouldn't kill the 15" just so people don't get confused.

I think the point is that the difference between 13", 15" and 17" laptops is easily grasped by even the least knowledgeable customer. It takes no time to figure which product fits your needs best. The difference between the 9.7" iPad and the 9.7" iPad pro is not intuitive, at least to me. If it is not obvious how different products serve different needs, then you aren't actually expanding the market your product appe…

I understand you. There was a time where there was one lineup for each need, and you knew what matched your situation. "Apple, give me a tablet", you pay 1 grand, you get the most awesome tablet. Now it's like in sport shops: "I need a sleeping bag to sleep outside" gets you a response like "What kind of 'sleep outside' do you mean?"...

Re: iPad 9.7‑inch

#249

Post by criddell »

throwanem wrote: post #231
criddell wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That looks exactly like what I want. I never really researched it before because the last thing in the world that I need is another thing to dedicate time to. I swear if I could afford to be retired today, I could keep myself busy for the rest of my life with stuff like this. My Dad retired a couple of years ago and I think he's bored much of the time. It drives me crazy.

Call it a historical irony: those in the generation which can afford to retire have generally built their lives so closely around their work that, without it, they can find nothing to do; meanwhile, those of us who have plenty of ideas for how we'd spend such a vast amount of economically secure free time will mostly never be able to afford it.

When the lotto jackpot reaches around $500 million, I'll spend $5 on tickets (it happens maybe once a year). It's easily worth it for the few days I get to dream about setting up the ultimate workshop or being able to travel to find the greatest teachers.

I'd also buy a nice watch.

Re: iPad 9.7‑inch

#250

Post by pythonaut_16 »

talldan wrote: post #212
squeaky-clean wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always thought that was the iDevice's strength. With Android, you have nothing actually made by Google but by OEMs, with different names and branding that don't give any real information. Which phone is "the android"? My mom doesn't think she has an android phone, she thinks she has an LG and that Android is a different thing. People buy a low end Android phone and hate the entire ecosystem because the phone perfor…

There's also the 3G, 3GS, 4S, 5S, 5C, 6S, 6 Plus, 6S Plus Looking back, there were always non-descriptive names, and inconsistencies. I'd argue that not knowing what 'Android' is actually demonstrates the technology has reached its goal of being universal. It's implicit instead of explicit. People buy it without needing to know what it is. Why would most consumers care about the name of an operating system? It's unim…

I agree that all of the sub-versions of the iPhone are slightly confusing, but at least they generally follow a pattern.

There's always a clear progression, a higher number is always better than a lower number, and adding an S is an incremental upgrade over the non-S version. The Plus is always a larger size than normal.

The G series and C series have complicated things, but generally speaking you just have to pick a number and then pick one of ~3 options at that level.

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