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How a French scholar was treated at US airport

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Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#241

Post by jacquesm »

davidivadavid wrote: post #240
jacquesm wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_.. .

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to understand. Some guy was unfairly treated at an airport. A common occurrence in the US, so it seems. Now that story gets blown out of proportions (there are many similar cases no one ever reports here), and suddenly we're on a the verge of a genocide. Let's assume that's true. What prediction would you make and how much would you bet on it that would confirm this hypothesis is right?…

> How likely is it that it's just some TSA agent ego-tripping?

Very likely. And that's exactly the point.

Ego tripping and law enforcement should be kept apart at every opportunity.

For you this got blown out of proportion, because it does not affect you. But if it ever will affect you then I hope you will remember this thread and what it feels like when you're part of the 0.1% and nobody gives a fuck.

And everybody is part of some 0.1%, even if you haven't figured it out yet.

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#242

Post by ethbro »

CDRdude wrote: post #101
ethbro wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is, for better or worse, a populist decision. I'd be all in favor of other countries holding up any Americans coming through on a tourist visa. Maybe if enough of their friends gripe about the way they're being treated overseas, Trump country will think "Oh, it's really not a very nice way to treat people." (To say nothing of ineffective)

I think there is very little overlap between international travelers and Trump supporters.

I think that's a pompous assumption to make as it boils down to "If people travelled more, they wouldn't have voted for Trump." Which (even setting aside the economic assumption that everyone can jet off to Europe or Asia) is a pretty dismissive way to look at why people voted for Trump.

My takeaways were instead the following. (1) If one disagrees with the way the country is heading, one first has to understand the needs that drove people to Trump, and support people who fulfill those needs in a more positive way (rather than dismissing them). (2) Stop considering oneself absolved of blame if one didn't vote for Trump. One still participated in the environment that led to a Trump elector college victory, and is thus complicit.

Every day, not just election day.

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#243

Post by jacquesm »

getpost wrote: post #189

I still don't get it. Assuming it's true that there was a lack of clarity on whether he had the appropriate type of visa, why was he held 10 hours? Why was so much time spent on his case? And why badger a 70 year old Australian children's book author who had visited the US 116 times previously? [1] Not to ignore or minimize abuse by CBP officers, but from the CBP perspective, from the tax payers' perspective, what po…

> Not to ignore or minimize abuse by CBP officers, but from the CBP perspective, from the tax payers' perspective, what possible value derives from this behavior?

I'm fairly sure the net value is a negative, especially when taken in accumulation.

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#244

Post by badminton1 »

peferron wrote: post #236
badminton1 wrote: post #129

You can assist conferences with a B1 visa. "Traveling for a scientific, educational, professional or business convention, or a conference on specific dates" is an intended use case of the visa type. ( https://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/temporary-visito... ) However, you cannot get paid for it. In addition the conference must not be about recruiting.

Wrong. https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/BusinessVisa%20Pu... > Lecturer or speaker: If honorarium will be received, ... [list of conditions that the scholar in the article visibly meets]. It baffles my mind why multiple people in this HN thread keep suggesting that the scholar in the article didn't have an appropriate visa.

Thanks for pointing it out.

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#245

Post by raarts »

jacquesm wrote: post #238
mthoms wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you arguing that agricultural controls at land border crossings are ineffectual and should be dismantled? That seems to go against (what appears to be) global scientific consensus that controls like these are helpful in slowing the spread of invasive species. Or are you just arguing there should be exemptions for small amounts?

I am arguing that if there is no clear danger one should not go overboard, proportionality is what matters. The USA and Canada are to all intents and purposes one when it comes to this kind of control. There are some borders that have been constructed with a biological air-gap in mind but that's not one of them. This is one of them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dari%C3%A9n_Gap And it is effective because it is both…

Well put. Thank you. Absolutely crazy to think sending someone back because of an apple is in any way justifiable between two countries with such a long shared border.

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#246

Post by the_cyber_pass »

jacquesm wrote: post #165
the_cyber_pass wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally almost nothing has changed in the real world at this point. Maybe it will change, but for 99.9% of people the US is still acting like the US always has when it comes to day to day affairs and I say this as someone who had family get hit by Trumps immigration ban.

Yes, that's the right attitude. 99.9% of the people are not affected so it doesn't matter. /s Really, don't we ever learn lessons from history?

I'm Iranian American, you are being hysterical. This story is blown out of proportion and you are treating it like we are on the verge of Hitler rising up from the grave and donning the red white and blue.

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#247

Post by jacquesm »

the_cyber_pass wrote: post #246
jacquesm wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's the right attitude. 99.9% of the people are not affected so it doesn't matter. /s Really, don't we ever learn lessons from history?

I'm Iranian American, you are being hysterical. This story is blown out of proportion and you are treating it like we are on the verge of Hitler rising up from the grave and donning the red white and blue.

Let's see:

- many tens of billions extra will be spent on armaments (America first, sure)

- nationalism is at a roughly 70 year high in the Western world

- as is xenophobia

- in many countries politicians of extremely dubious character are waiting in the wings with elections around the corner

You're treating it like it is business as usual. And I can assure you that it is not. I haven't seen this kind of alignment as long as I've been alive.

Now let's hope things will get better before they get worse.

I don't see what you being an Iranian American has anything to do with it though, for all I care you could be born in Brooklyn or Paris, it would not make any difference to me.

And if you feel this story is blown out of proportion then I hope that your family is with you and will not attempt to join you anywhere in the next couple of years, noting how Iran was part of the not-Muslim ban.

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#248

Post by the_cyber_pass »

jacquesm wrote: post #164
the_cyber_pass wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds a bit extreme. The US is bad, but it's not the worst place I have ever been. Also don't drag the rest of us in with you, it's selfish and petty that you would have people lose their jobs over what you perceive as a embarrassment from reading things on the internet.

I'd rather visit Panama, Colombia, Serbia or Romania at this point than the USA. And that's based on personal experience, not based on things read on the internet.

All of which I am sure are lovely countries. I have only been to Romania out of that list and I loved my time there. You are free to visit and prefer wherever you want. I prefer spending my time in Hong Kong or Singapore if given the option. I just view the complete halting of tourist markets to a to a country for a political statement because less than 1% have problems with local authorities with what probably amounts to them misspeaking about the nature of their trip (work vs tourist visa debate) and the TSA being the right mixture of incompetent and evil is a bit hyperbolic.

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#249

Post by the_cyber_pass »

jacquesm wrote: post #247
the_cyber_pass wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Iranian American, you are being hysterical. This story is blown out of proportion and you are treating it like we are on the verge of Hitler rising up from the grave and donning the red white and blue.

Let's see: - many tens of billions extra will be spent on armaments (America first, sure) - nationalism is at a roughly 70 year high in the Western world - as is xenophobia - in many countries politicians of extremely dubious character are waiting in the wings with elections around the corner You're treating it like it is business as usual. And I can assure you that it is not. I haven't seen this kind of alignment as…

- The US is currently bombing 7 countries. Tensions are heating up in eastern Europe due to Russian aggression and NATO expansion in the region. This is happening no matter what just because the American empire is losing power and regional powers are attempting to flex more muscle. - I honestly don't find nationalism to be an inherit evil. Nationalism is a tool in the political playbook just like any other. I am not saying that going from 0 to fascist is ok, but we have been sitting at about a 4 for a while now and it probably just got cranked up to a 6. - The Xenophobia has always been there. Growing up after 9/11 my family stuck american flags on our cars as a precaution against vandalism. I think what people are seeing is the lower 'deplorable' classes finally got equal access to mass communication that many of us have enjoyed for years and we are seeing those old tensions getting pushed to the front of our political dialog. Before now people in well to do areas could just ignore it. Also xenophobia isn't a unilateral thing, race relations in the US are terrible and small groups of every racial demographic make life hard for non racists in other demographics. I also think a lot of this, at least on the internet, has to do with push back against what is viewed as an overbearing cultural force from the political left. It's now edgy to be an ironic neo-nazi on the internet and if you tweet nazi memes at a journalist you might end up on the front of the NYT. - I'm fearful of Wilders more than anyone else up and coming on the world stage right now. Trump I think is overblown and I don't know much about Le Pen besides some of the questionable history of her party and her role in 'reforming' it.

Me being an Iranian american is relevant to this because we are one of the number one groups of people targeted in times like this in the US. Iran is a hostile geopolitical power to the US domination of middle eastern affairs. We are frequently singled out for likely 'terrorist' activities because of the mix of Islam, skin color and the past few administrations have been hinting that they are edging for conflict with Iran. If anyone is going to get rounded up into interment camps in the US it will probably be people like me.

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#250

Post by a_bonobo »

pjc50 wrote: post #155
brandonmenc wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Left, or was expelled?

I was going by wikipedia "He emigrated to France with his family in 1956 due to the rise of antisemitism in Egypt.", but if we click through to the source for that statement we get http://www.jta.org/2017/02/25/news-opinion/united-states/u-s... (caution, stupid modal) which says "He and his family were forced out of Egypt in 1956 under anti-Semitic measures instituted by the Nasser regime." NPOV working about as well…

Wikipedia on the Nasser expulsions, didn't know about this before:

>As a result of the Suez Crisis, Nasser brought in a set of regulations imposing rigorous requirements for residency and citizenship as well as forced expulsions, mostly affecting British and French nationals and Jews with foreign nationality, as well as many Egyptian Jews. Some 25,000 Jews, almost half of the Jewish community left in 1956, mainly for Israel, Europe, the United States and South America.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamal_Abdel_Nasser

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