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Why Ever Stop Playing Video Games

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Re: Why Ever Stop Playing Video Games

#241
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, when it comes to those F2P phones games, I would start to agree with the cigarette analogy... those are just skinner boxes with coin slots.

Some of those can be pretty fun, but when you get to the point that paying for it seems at all tempting it's time to take a different approach - the way which involves a decompiler, a debugger and maybe Frida too. When free to play becomes pay to win, writing your own cheats is the more fun and rewarding option.

And that is how you leverage your downtime into something at least tangentially related to productivity. I like it!

Re: Why Ever Stop Playing Video Games

#242
post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure I agree with this. "Finding" the best strategy rewards you for a week at most, until the community absorbs the strategy. Then you're no farther than the people you were beating last week. In most cases I experienced, exploitative strategies are only slightly improved, and require a fair amount of skill (usually games hotpatch outrageous exploits quickly). The people who find it worse train to use it fi…

I'd argue this isn't unique to esports - Formula One has a similar thing happening - the teams develop new technology to make cars get round the track faster, and then the organisation decides if they fit within the rules. The rules change over time. DOTA2 does this better than most - most strategies are accepted as a part of the game - in fact, a lot of things core to play now began life as those kind of exploits (p…

> I'd argue this isn't unique to esports - Formula One has a similar thing happening - the teams develop new technology to make cars get round the track faster, and then the organisation decides if they fit within the rules. The rules change over time.

The big difference is that the advances in F1 car design and even driving is that they can have some relevance in the outside world, in totally unrelated fields to race cars. It's very rare that experience in a video game leads to new engineering efficiency breakthroughs, materials science, etc. It sometimes happens that we see interesting models in economics emerge (EVE stands out here), but I'd say its rarer for sure.

Re: Why Ever Stop Playing Video Games

#243
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Player Vs Player games are unique. They're designed around making players constantly navigate a shifting metagame, fighting each other to generate content out of the existing field. It's sort of a recipe for unhappiness, as the entire system devolves into, "Who can find the most abusively unfair strategy first, and then exploit it." Since most of these games simply cannot have the time devoted to them to make them "b…

A perfectly balanced game would be impossible to create, given strategy X compared to strategy Y, X will always seem abusive, but then strategy Z might seem abusive to X, to which Y seems abusive, etc. It's a bit like rock-paper-scissors, if someone starts using paper, stop using your rock and replace it with a scissor. Constantly changing balance patches from the game developers also become a treadmill and can feel…

> A perfectly balanced game would be impossible to create, given strategy X compared to strategy Y, X will always seem abusive, but then strategy Z might seem abusive to X, to which Y seems abusive, etc.

I'm sorry, but within a reasonable margin of fairness you're just not right.

> It's a bit like rock-paper-scissors, if someone starts using paper, stop using your rock and replace it with a scissor.

Usually what happens is a grenade is revealed into the RPS dynamic and everyone has to concentrate on the grenade or very specific strategies to counter the grenade. The entire game ends up revolving around a combination that has an elevated winrate unless specifically countered.

This has happened in the international a year or two ago, it happened in League, it happened even in little spaces like Fractured Space, it happened during the overwatch beta (haven't been keeping up since launch). It happened in smash wii (oh god pre-patch Luigis were everywhere and you had to have specific options ready just for them).

And it's worth noting it's a negative feedback loop: games struggle to keep engagement (because the market is flooded), so the game companies flood their games with new content. This content can almost never be brought into perfect balance with the game dynamics as is, so they redefine it. This is viewed as "an active game" and gamers are taught they should prefer "active" games.

For PvE games, this is usually fine (inasmuch as the only people affected are the diehard super-optimizers). For PvP, this redefines the game and invalidates the meta everyone has to play.

Re: Why Ever Stop Playing Video Games

#244
For me I just realized I wasn't very fulfilled by playing video games all of the time. Nowadays I still like to play games but in smaller amounts. Instead of building things in games I now find myself wanting to build software projects :p.

Re: Why Ever Stop Playing Video Games

#245
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know people who replaced drug addiction with video game addiction. It's impossible to know how things would have gone if they didn't get involved with one or the other, but I wonder if some people are vulnerable to addiction through a combination of biology and life experiences, and it's just a matter of which thing they become addicted to. If that's the case, video games are probably one of the most benign things…

Yes people really can be prone to be addicted. Look it up.

I just don't want to say that people are inevitably going to be addicted to justify monetizing addiction, but the fact that relatively harmless addictive products are available might serve a purpose.

Re: Why Ever Stop Playing Video Games

#246

I've found learning and creating to be more fulfilling activities than videogames. That's not to advocate against gaming, or to generalize all games, but I've thought about how much time I spent playing games in the past and if I was happy with what I gained from it: I largely was not. I felt as if I was lacking in skills that I wished I had, and believe I could have learned in that time. I'm happier with myself afte…

I get anxious when I've played video games for too long instead of honing a skill or working. I get anxious when I've been working or cramming info into my head for too long. It balances out. Besides, it's important to allow yourself rest periods between bouts of learning to allow your brain to consolidate the new information and subconsciously draw inferences and review detail. Otherwise you reach a point when you'v…

I also tend to play games that involve exploration of worlds I will never experience in my own life, mastery of skills that require cognitive precision and dexterity, or philosophical rumination. I find these experiences to be a positive addition to my world and my understanding of people around me.

Care to share some of your favorites? I'd be curious to check them out.

Re: Why Ever Stop Playing Video Games

#247

I've found learning and creating to be more fulfilling activities than videogames. That's not to advocate against gaming, or to generalize all games, but I've thought about how much time I spent playing games in the past and if I was happy with what I gained from it: I largely was not. I felt as if I was lacking in skills that I wished I had, and believe I could have learned in that time. I'm happier with myself afte…

>I've found learning and creating to be more fulfilling activities than videogames.

>I wonder if other people share the same joy of learning that I feel

Yes, but... Most of my learning and creating has been inspired by games. I started with AD&D (pen and paper, not a video game), then historic tabletop miniature games. By middle school, I was reading 1000+ page college-level books about history because the games got me interested. School taught little or nothing about ancient civilizations, the napoleonic era, or the pike-and-shot era. There were also the WWII, Cold-War, and near-future games that led me to learn a lot about geography, geopolitics, and recent history.

By the time I got a PC (still before high school), I was playing some really complex detail-oriented games. There was a lot of paperwork to keep track of game state, tables to do lookups on, and rules details to remember. I learned how to program trying to make things that would ease the paperwork burden and let me focus on the strategy. (Coincidentally, that turned out to be a valuable career skill.) I also tried to make my own PC games, of course. As PCs got more powerful, PC games got better and more detailed (and better than I could make) and I mostly switched to them. Playing simulators like Silent Hunter and 688(I) led me to learn a lot about geometry and such. At the same time I started trying to make PBeM and PBW client software (again, useful career skills involving networking, client/server programming, and data processing/presentation).

As a fan of serious strategy games, I was interested in creating an AI player that could actually handle those types of games (which are exponentially more complex than chess-like games). I read a lot about AI and played around with different types of heuristics and other ideas. Nothing really came of that (yet) but it was very interesting learning about learning and thinking and planning.

Another genre that interested me were economic games like Wall $treet Raider and Capitalism Plus. That led me to many interesting books and movies to try to understand why companies did things like mergers, acquisitions and divestitures, spinoff subsidiaries, holding companies, etc., and how that related to the stock market.

Much enjoyable time was spent drawing illustrations and doing digital art, and learning a bit about 3-D modeling and CAD. That too was largely gaming-inspired, or trying to make art for games. While my skills have atrophied, I'd probably never have gotten as good as I did if I hadn't had inspiration.

Generally, my bookshelves are lined with books about topics that gaming got me interested in. My career is built upon foundations of things that I learned because of games. But I can't think of a single time when watching a new episode of _insert favorite TV show here_, or any other leisure/hobby, has led me to the bookstore to learn more, or led me to experiment with new creations, the way that a new game is likely to do. I'm happy with what I've gained from it.

Re: Why Ever Stop Playing Video Games

#248
post #108

I don't really like when computer games are called video games. It kind of lessens their value. Computers allow implementing a lot of different features in gaming, and not all of them are visual.

They were called "video games" before people started using computers to play them.

What did they use then if not computers?

Re: Why Ever Stop Playing Video Games

#249
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were called "video games" before people started using computers to play them.

What did they use then if not computers?

Consoles and arcade game machines, to name two. Yes, they're arguably computers at heart, but they're not what are generally understood to be computers in the same way PCs are.

Re: Why Ever Stop Playing Video Games

#250
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were called "video games" before people started using computers to play them.

What did they use then if not computers?

Have a look at the PONG original circuit diagram which uses discrete logic. It's hard to call that a computer.

http://atarihq.com/danb/Pong.shtml

http://hackaday.com/2012/12/22/fabricating-hardware-from-the...

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