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Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

susanjfowler.com

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Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#241

Post by mattdeboard »

bsaul wrote: post #173
exolymph wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you be okay with it if you started a new job and your boss instantly propositioned you?

Of course not, but i'll just tell her / him i'm not interested, and see if the person's keep insisting and make my life at work miserable, or if he's just a desperate person having a very bad day... There are many reason why someone would be a pain to work with honestly. I could imagine someone insisting on people going to drink after work being a pita for a muslim for example, or a guy talking all the time about pol…

That's because your boss propositioning you for sex _is_ different than your boss talking to you about politics.

It says something about the culture of the company that a manager feels unfettered to ask his direct reports for sex so boldly, i.e. without fear of consequence. I'm shocked you do not see this.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#242

Post by freyr »

> "or (ii) I could stay on the team, but I would have to understand that he would most likely give me a poor performance review when review time came around, and there was nothing they could do about that."

I fully believe that her manager sexually harassed her and should have faced much harsher consequences, but it's almost inconceivable that HR would frame her options this way. No doubt she feared retribution, but did HR really tell her to expect it? It's hard to know what to make of specifics like these, when words get paraphrased.

In any case, the manager's behavior and HR's response were inexcusable.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#243

Post by unityByFreedom »

rosser wrote: post #217
unityByFreedom wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That speaks to me. After salary negotiations, HR within companies has never done anything for me when I approached them. They seemed to be there only to defend the boss and register me as a complainer. It took me several jobs and this post to learn that.

> HR within companies has never done anything for me when I approached them.... The thing you need to keep in mind about HR is this: they aren't there to help you, to have your back. They're there to protect the company from you . Incidental to that, they've traditionally managed the benefits the company is either required or chooses to give you, and acts as a place for you to take concerns such as sexual harassment.…

I believe there are some good HR groups out there who truly do look out for the long term interests of their companies.

I think what's good for me, if I'm a hard worker, is also good for the company.

Certainly I'm my best advocate. Even a union couldn't do everything for me.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#244

Post by Mz »

ben_olive wrote: post #219

HR fucked up and the manager should not have talked to her that way. Absolutely agree. I believe she has grounds to sue if she wishes. Now, I think it's easy to take this type of situations and overeact. The behavior Susan described is not appropriate. That said, I think there is a trend to classify any romantic behavior or advances as sexual assault and innpapropriate behavior. Nowadays I would have a very hard time…

I am pretty evenhanded about such things and my comments and blog posts reflect that. The article does not at all describe "oh, no big, people date at work" at all.

Comments like this one are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#247

Post by BinaryIdiot »

jacquesm wrote: post #178
BinaryIdiot wrote: post #139

I may have experienced a little bit of sexual harassment in my youth when working at a local McDonald's but, being a guy, it was the only time and I was able to put a stop to be rather quickly. However, being in software engineering for the past 12 years, I have seen the sexual harassment of several women all of which never saw a proper resolution. For instance I worked at a small company that was later bought by a l…

> sexual women Unfortunate typo there.

Oops. Thanks!

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#248

Post by ben_olive »

mjburgess wrote: post #238
ben_olive wrote: post #219

HR fucked up and the manager should not have talked to her that way. Absolutely agree. I believe she has grounds to sue if she wishes. Now, I think it's easy to take this type of situations and overeact. The behavior Susan described is not appropriate. That said, I think there is a trend to classify any romantic behavior or advances as sexual assault and innpapropriate behavior. Nowadays I would have a very hard time…

You're taking your own minor inconvenience and raising it to the level of living day-in-day-out sexual harassment near-millions of women are subject to. The pendulum has not swung too far when a new hire is propositioned for sex. This example is far more typical than your social awkwardness.

I'm not denying that there are many people that are subjected to sexual harassment.

My own minor inconvenience? my social awkwardness? Not sure why you are immediately resorting to painting a picture of me of an entitled male. please discuss the actual issues. I'm not attacking susan in any way and I agree with most of what she said

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#249

Post by jbronn »

tptacek wrote: post #188
unityByFreedom wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? It's literally your right to vote to join a union. If a majority of coworkers vote for one, you've got a union. Look up the National Labor Relations Act.

Not only is this true, but the NLRA also bars employer retaliation against concerted actions by employees both to organize and also to take actions in protest of work conditions. It's a huge exception to at-will employment. I had no idea about any of this stuff until I started talking to the Tech Solidarity people. I'd always thought the reason nobody goes on strike is that you'd simply be fired for doing so. But, no…

While technically true, the enforcement is up to the Department of Labor. Do you honestly believe that Puzder (now Acosta) is really going to enforce these rules? It's the whole reason they were chosen for the position in the first place.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#250

Post by [deleted] »

tptacek wrote: post #188
unityByFreedom wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? It's literally your right to vote to join a union. If a majority of coworkers vote for one, you've got a union. Look up the National Labor Relations Act.

Not only is this true, but the NLRA also bars employer retaliation against concerted actions by employees both to organize and also to take actions in protest of work conditions. It's a huge exception to at-will employment. I had no idea about any of this stuff until I started talking to the Tech Solidarity people. I'd always thought the reason nobody goes on strike is that you'd simply be fired for doing so. But, no…

[deleted]
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