From OS X to Ubuntu • Hacker News Board

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#241

Post by fnord123 » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 9:10 AM UTC

developer2 wrote: post #104

timtadh wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux laptops: buy pre-installed. If you want linux and you want to be sure everything is functional, AND you don't want to devote lots of time to a "project" buy a pre-install. Dell Developer Edition laptops (XPS 13, 15) make great laptops. I hear good things about system 76 and purism as well. Save time. Support having good laptops and good drivers. Buy pre-installed. Paying the "windows tax" and installing a Linux…

>> Linux laptops: buy pre-installed. The fact that hardware - though much improved in the past 15 years - is still a crapshoot on Linux, particularly when it comes to laptop hardware, is so frustrating. Windows will work on practically any combination of hardware. OS X will work on any hardware it is permitted to operate on. Linux is the only consortium of operating systems that still suffer from the inability to "ju…

>Windows will work on practically any combination of hardware.

I strongly disagree. When the dinosaurs roamed the Earth and I tried to dual boot, Debian ran everything on my desktop from the get go. For Windows, I had to hunt for drivers for all the hardware, or use the provided disks (which was annoying since I hadn't originally bought an optical drive)

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#242

Post by kagamine » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 9:17 AM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #223

anuragsoni wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was another post on hackernews today about some new Dell ubuntu-based workstations[1]. The webpage that the post refers to mentions worldwide availability, so maybe dell might be an option for you at some point? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13360339 Also, it looks like that their ubuntu edition and the windows edition of XPS-13 come with the same wireless cards this year (It used to be broadcom on w…

That is not quite true. For example, every time I see these type of news and go to the German web site, those laptops are usually listed as "product not available" or "product no longer available".

Same, never have I gone to Dell and seen XPS in stock in a European store. EVER. It's a while since I checked and maybe I'm just always there at the wrong time in release and stocking cycles, but XPS seems almost impossible to get hold of from the Dell store.

Edit: just checked and they have them in stock. Well done Dell.

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#243

Post by phaemon » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 9:20 AM UTC

mnm1 wrote: post #144

mgbmtl wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused by your comment. Why would you have to re-install your OS because of a problem with X? X doesn't typically save a configuration, it doesn't keep a registry, etc. Its settings get regenerated when it boots. Maybe you're encountering application configuration issues? Deleting/re-creating your user account should be enough (or finding the Gnome/KDE/other configuration that is causing problem, but I agree th…

I don't have to reinstall; I just don't have the patience to debug and fix X when it fails. I've definitely had plenty of problems with every single window manager I've ever tried which true, is not X itself, but plenty of the problems have been with graphics and input devices which X does handle. To be complete and clear then, the whole GUI system based on X, including X itself and window managers, has never been st…

> I'm not sure what you mean by "doesn't typically save a configuration."

It doesn't save a configuration by default. It gets the recommended resolution from the display and uses that. You can set custom resolutions from xorg.conf, or more easily with a ~/.xsession file but it's not required if you are happy with the defaults for your monitor.

> It definitely needs one to run properly (xorg.conf).

Nope, not for many years.

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#244

Post by weavie » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 9:22 AM UTC

nextos wrote: post #123

throwaway729 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wireless hasn't been a problem (for me) for at least the past 3 years. The really dramatic improvements happened prior before 2010, and things have only gotten better since then. Bluetooth is still a damned mess. That, and battery life, and GPUs "just working", are the big differentiators IME. Of course YMMV.

With some powertop tweaks battery life can be as good as in OS X. I do in fact get a bit more juice from Arch than from OS X in my MBA. My setup is a very minimal on Arch, so the comparison is slightly unfair but it shows my point. OS X doesn't do any special magic. Linux can achieve equally low power consumptions with decent drivers and correct setup.

I think that is a very fair comparison. With OSX a minimal setup is not even an option.

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#245

Post by indeyets » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 9:22 AM UTC

sk1pper wrote: post #31

IMO if money isn't an object, OS X is a better call when it comes to laptops. If money is tight, going for a Linux box is almost as good. Linux on desktops - as in, not a laptop - has worked pretty much flawlessly for me for >10 years. Not much else to say there. If desktop or server, this shouldn't be a discussion. As far as laptops go, I've just had better experiences with macbooks. Linux on a laptop is still 100%…

> all that being said, prob will switch over when this one dies, because touch bar... lol

I wonder why there's such lack of belief in everyone. I think this touchbar is just a temporary transition-time solution and we'll have a decent replacement in a year (tactile feedback, retina-resolution, etc.)

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#246

Post by tomcam » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 9:24 AM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #228

kriro wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly disagree with the sentiment that the solution is "another closed-source unix/linux-based operating system that throws away X.org and its attempted modern replacements, that can directly compete with OS X" We don't need more closed, we need more open. What we need is massive rewards for open hardware via customer money. As long as wireless cards and graphics cards are closed by default and drivers are BLOBe…

No, GNU/Linux needs less fragmentation. It needs a full OS stack, from the kernel to the UI toolkit, that is guaranteed to be the same, across all distributions. Where are the Mac OS X frameworks on GNU/Linux? Nowhere, because each distribution might be using a total different way to play sounds, music, doing SIMD, process images, accessing databases, UI toolkit ....

We all agree. How do you achieve that goal when device vendors have no interest in working with a distant third Linux in the OS ecosystem, much less your elegant but totally unproven PjmlpOS?

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#247

Post by majewsky » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 9:31 AM UTC

sk1pper wrote: post #31

IMO if money isn't an object, OS X is a better call when it comes to laptops. If money is tight, going for a Linux box is almost as good. Linux on desktops - as in, not a laptop - has worked pretty much flawlessly for me for >10 years. Not much else to say there. If desktop or server, this shouldn't be a discussion. As far as laptops go, I've just had better experiences with macbooks. Linux on a laptop is still 100%…

> Getting things set up can be a way bigger PITA on Linux, like function keys, sound, and god forbid, wirless.

Still? When I bought a new notebook in 2012, the particular model had been out for 3 days. Yet there was a very detailed installation guide in the Arch Wiki for that particular model, and the only issues I had were with the brightness keys on the notebook (both for screen and keyboard backlight). The backlight control via UI worked, but not via keys. Was fixed a few months later.

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#248

Post by majewsky » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 9:33 AM UTC

ePierre wrote: post #143

timtadh wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux laptops: buy pre-installed. If you want linux and you want to be sure everything is functional, AND you don't want to devote lots of time to a "project" buy a pre-install. Dell Developer Edition laptops (XPS 13, 15) make great laptops. I hear good things about system 76 and purism as well. Save time. Support having good laptops and good drivers. Buy pre-installed. Paying the "windows tax" and installing a Linux…

> Save time. Support having good laptops and good drivers. Buy pre-installed. Paying the "windows tax" and installing a Linux on a windows laptop isn't just more work, it is bad for the ecosystem. I wish I could. Unfortunately, I live in a country (Taiwan) where no one knows about Linux. It's impossible to buy a pre-installed Linux laptop here. You know the most ironic part? My job here is to certify hardware (includ…

> I live in a country (Taiwan) where no one knows about Linux. It's impossible to buy a pre-installed Linux laptop here.

Quite some years ago, I went into a smaller electronics store in Germany because I had seen a nice notebook model on their website that had an SKU without operating system.

When I spoke to the clerk, he was completely puzzled that I would want a notebook without Windows. I can still hear his words in my ears: "But you need an operating system!" I tried to explain to him that there exist other OSs, but to no avail. I walked away from that purchase after imagining how support would go if I had any problems with the hardware.

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#249

Post by hd4 » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 9:34 AM UTC

Since a few versions now (and also in 16.04 LTS), the Bluetooth drivers in the kernel used by Ubuntu have been broken. Otherwise Ubuntu is a solid distro and it doesn’t get in my way.

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#250

Post by majewsky » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 9:37 AM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #226

qplex wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Linux is the only consortium of operating systems that still suffer from the inability to "just work out of the box". Google the laptop model + Linux before you buy it. That increases the odds of getting a "it works out of the box" experience. You'll also usually find pretty straightforward instructions how to get things going quickly if they do not work out of the box, or the simple fact that the machine is not wel…

> Google the laptop model + Linux before you buy it. That increases the odds of getting a "it works out of the box" experience. I would happily do this when was a university student about 20 years ago. Nowadays, I want to go whatever store (physical or online) and just take what I want to buy. Yes, there are some online stores for GNU/Linux, but as I discovered with the one I bought (Asus + Ubuntu), it might happen t…

> Nowadays, I want to go whatever store (physical or online) and just take what I want to buy.

If you bring Linux on a USB stick, a good store will let you boot into it on the exhibition piece. At least, that was the case for me, and it definitely contributed to my buying my notebook at that particular store.