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The Real Name Fallacy

blog.coralproject.net

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Re: The Real Name Fallacy

#241

Post by webXL »

If harassment is a social and cultural problem, then in my view, so is the desire for anonymity, which is a natural byproduct that aids both sides. Banning anonymity would negatively impact both sides. But who is harmed more? And who is harmed more in the other scenario? The article just focuses on one side of the former. Sure certain individuals need more protection if a real name policy is enforced, but at least it's easier to identify and punish the bigots.

That said, I don't think pseudonyms should be banned in order to prevent harassment, but where people go to discuss complex and sensitive topics, I would expect to see more thoughtful responses from a Real Name vs. a_guy_with_nothing_to_lose, barring a decent karma system.

Re: The Real Name Fallacy

#242

Post by Tharre »

CocaKoala wrote: post #229
Tharre wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea what you're trying to point out (or what that comic is about).

He's pointing out that you're trying to force an argument to happen, even when it's clear that the other party doesn't really want to engage in an argument. Additionally, you're doing it in a fairly obnoxious manner.

I thank you for your explanation, but I still don't get it. How was I forcing an argument in any shape or form? I merely asked for clarification on a _very_ extreme claim, which I got shortly afterwards, in the form that the claim was meant differently. That would have been the end of the matter for me.

But apparently I'm obnoxious? Well, than so be it.

Re: The Real Name Fallacy

#243

Post by Pica_soO »

zanny wrote: post #163
Pica_soO wrote: post #82

The Real Name Fallacy is social nostalgia- if we all could go back to the village, then everything would be good? The solution for this and fake news, would be chains of trust. I do not trust my government, i do not trust my media, but i know two or three guys, i would trust too know. If these guys vouched for the guys vouching for the knowledge i see to be true, i would trust that. In return, i can fade the crack-po…

The problem is a lot of people are in social circles full of crackpots, so their friends are the crackpots that trust crackpots and spread misinformation. A lot of these anti-reality movements only function because they have the critical mass of participation to not easily be ignored or sidelined. Once you have millions of willing participants in a lie, by that fact alone, it is given legitimacy.

Is it just a lie then- or already starting to form a ideology?

Re: The Real Name Fallacy

#244

Post by anigbrowl »

dagenleg wrote: post #116
mirimir wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a fourth option: use Facebook with your real name, and separately with fake name(s). For the real-name account, carefully manage "friends" to avoid problems with family, friends, coworkers, etc. Make sure that there's no leakage between your real-name account and fake-name accounts, or among fake-name accounts. Practice good compartmentalization OpSec.

Or just have a mostly unused real-name account that you use for contacting your friends, when you can't reach them otherwise. Why even have a fake facebook account? Facebook will know it's you. The government will too. If you don't want the whole world to be privy to what you post, then why even use Facebook? Just post your green frogs and political opinions on forums and websites that do not base their revenue aroun…

You're saying that the network effect benefits of Facebook (making new friends or staying in contact with existing ones) are exactly equal to the costs (loss of privacy). They're not; FB chooses what that cost:benefit ratio is by how they set their terms of service and (naturally) puts its economic advantage first. Competitors can't deliver the same network effects as FB so the benefits they can offer are very limited by comparison.

that, in a nutshell, s why we could really use a good social networking protocol rather than a platform. Platforms are like land, land has landlords, and landlords want rents.

Re: The Real Name Fallacy

#245

Post by EekSnakePond »

Step -1.) Demand real name's to protect the childrens.

Step 0.) We did it! Everyone has to use real names now! Equality unlocked!

Step 1.) Put in someone else's real name instead of your own.

Step 2.) Troll as that person or use that real name to infiltrate that person's social network

Step lulz.) Doxx brigade/morality police now target the wrong person.

Step 3.) Congratulations, not only did you not solve the problem you were trying to solve, now your rules are a robust breeding ground to cause actual social and economic damage to people YOU ALREADY AGREE WITH because "pixels are feelings, too".

Step 4.) Hang your head in shame for such short-term thinking.

Step 5.) Downvote me because of tone.

Re: The Real Name Fallacy

#246

Post by mabbo »

Tharre wrote: post #215
Frondo wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you're arguing in good faith right now. This sounds an awful lot like sealioning. (For those who aren't familiar with it, http://wondermark.com/1k62/ is the origin of the term.)

I have no idea what you're trying to point out (or what that comic is about).

That comic is pointing out that the kind of behaviour that you're engaging in is obnoxious. The downvotes you appear to be accumulating? That's what that is about. It's not simply disagreement, though I expect you'll blame it all on that anyways.

Re: The Real Name Fallacy

#247

Post by CaptSpify »

CM30 wrote: post #159
syshum wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit suffers because people in general do not believe freedom of speech is a right. I disliked the Fat People Hate subreddit, you know what I did... I did not visit the Fat People Hate subreddit. The communities I join and participate in on Reddit are moderated well and do not suffer from the problem, if you do not like what is talked about on The Donald, don't go there, not that hard. The problem is people do go,…

I agree with you here. However, Reddit and similar platforms usually can't operate under this logic. Why? Because they need to make money to stay online/keep operating. And unfortunately, that means content that alienates advertisers (like a lot of the more controversial subreddits) ends up actively hurting their revenue stream. They could try and get round this by monetising in other ways (micropayments, subscriptio…

> It's why in the long run, I suspect the answer to the problem isn't a centralised platform that hosts a lot of different communities, but a system that connects individually hosted communities into a 'network' of sorts with similar features to Reddit.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this just a protocol?

Re: The Real Name Fallacy

#248

Post by webXL »

mjolk wrote: post #9

While I agree that expecting users to use real names is a bad thing, this knocked the air out of me: > In societies including the US where violence and mistreatment of women, people of color, and marginalized people is common, we can expect similar problems in people’s digital interactions [1] > [1] Sarah Banet-Weiser and Kate M. Miltner. #MasculinitySoFragile: culture, structure, and networked misogyny. Feminist Med…

Same here. The US definitely has a lot of problems, but the criticisms are often devoid of any context and only serve to further some narrow agenda.

> In societies including the US...

Oh, so the other unnamed "decent" societies must have figured it (their social and cultural problems) out then. And you've chosen to focus on "digital interactions"... why??

Re: The Real Name Fallacy

#249

Post by EekSnakePond »

Tharre wrote: post #242
CocaKoala wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's pointing out that you're trying to force an argument to happen, even when it's clear that the other party doesn't really want to engage in an argument. Additionally, you're doing it in a fairly obnoxious manner.

I thank you for your explanation, but I still don't get it. How was I forcing an argument in any shape or form? I merely asked for clarification on a _very_ extreme claim, which I got shortly afterwards, in the form that the claim was meant differently. That would have been the end of the matter for me. But apparently I'm obnoxious? Well, than so be it.

If you don't submit and lay prostrate before the initial claim, you are guilty. Asking questions is forbidden. Clarification is forbidden. Always pretend to understand instead of engaging in analysis.

Welcome to the mindset of the people who want to control the Internet.

Re: The Real Name Fallacy

#250

Post by wildmusings »

marmot1101 wrote: post #198
syshum wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit suffers because people in general do not believe freedom of speech is a right. I disliked the Fat People Hate subreddit, you know what I did... I did not visit the Fat People Hate subreddit. The communities I join and participate in on Reddit are moderated well and do not suffer from the problem, if you do not like what is talked about on The Donald, don't go there, not that hard. The problem is people do go,…

That's all well and good when it was subs like FPH that were easily ignored. The thing that threatened to chase me off of reddit was the_donald. Not because I was "offended"(the new code word for calling someone a pussy), but because it was shitty content that pissed me off. And they figured out how to jack the algorithm to make their sub the most prominent content. I joined reddit for the science and tech, not to be…

There has never been a single post from the_donald on the default frontpage of reddit, which only includes the default subscriptions, or whatever you change your subscriptions to. According to Reddit admins, almost no one even browses r/all, the only place where there were a lot of the_donald posts. And that isn't even the case anymore, since reddit adjusted their algorithm.
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