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Tesla reports first quarterly profit in more than three years

reuters.com

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Re: Tesla reports first quarterly profit in more than three years

#241
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The integrated circuit came out of Apollo[1], and apparently the cellphone camera came from NASA's work[2]. Not sure about the rest. We wouldn't have GPS, obviously. You can credit a lot of stuff to the space program if you want, since all tech is built on other tech, and NASA was a big source of R&D in the 1950s onward. [1] https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/apollo-ic.html [2] http://www.space.com/10635-space-spinoff-tech…

To continue this train of thought, the entire reason Silicon Valley exists in the first place is because of Department of Defense spending: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTC_RxWN_xo (aka Big Government spending.) The foundations of the web were laid down by Tim Berners-Lee while working at CERN, a huge, expensive physics research organisation funded by European governments: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CERN#Comput…

While this is true, its also not the point. Russia and other places have and had tons of programs like it, but they don't have a Silicon Valley.

Government is usually always involved in nearly everything, because they are spending almost 50% of the GDP, and even 100 years ago they spent 20% or so. Other countries its sometimes as high as 70%.

Saying that computers, the web, satellites would not exist without government is a pretty absurd claim. The idea of satellites, networks and all this stuff was around and would have happened. The US was commercially successful, actually uniquely successful in almost all of world history, during a period when federal government spent only about 2% of GDP. During this time tons of innovation, the most in the world, came out of the US.

Tesla is successful not because of government handouts anymore then many other large companies. It of course helps them, just like with any other large company. Elon would be a idiot if he didn't advocate for tax breaks, you have to play the politics game.

Re: Tesla reports first quarterly profit in more than three years

#242
post #194
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is extremely anti-consumer, and I don't understand why you are being down-voted.

A point of clarification: you are able to use the car with a human operator in any ridesharing service. Tesla is saying that you can't share out your car on Uber's platform, with it operating at full autonomy, while you chill on your couch.

That makes sense, thank you.

Re: Tesla reports first quarterly profit in more than three years

#243
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering how most of his current businesses exist thanks to gov't incentives/tax advantages in the domains, there are legitimate criticisms to the way in which his businesses are run. Though I think it's proof the system works! Offer tax incentives for electric cars, get electric cars. Though it seems like Musk isn't making a super sustainable business just yet.... Solar City is arguably "good solar", but that com…

> Considering how most of his current businesses exist thanks to gov't incentives/tax advantages in the domains, there are legitimate criticisms to the way in which his businesses are run. Many of his Detroit competitors wouldn't exist/would be a shadow of their current selves if it wasn't for a massive bailout in 2008. Why is this never mentioned? If this is how low the bar is set (bailing out large, badly-managed c…

As an European, I sincerly hope that the Saudi regime collapse, for all the BS they are creating here and in the Middle-East.

Still, for Syria, they are not the sole guilty party.

Re: Tesla reports first quarterly profit in more than three years

#244
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have anything against Musk. I simply don't care much one way or the other because the things he's working on will never affect me. Electric cars are not something I'm interested in owning at the price Tesla is asking. Or even half what Tesla is asking. Utility electricity works fine for me, is a small fraction of my monthly budget, and is reliable. I.e. something I never really worry about. Payments for and m…

Model 3 is going to cost $35k, and like $28k after incentives. It will SAVE about $1500/year on gas and $500 on maintenance. This is cheaper than a Honda Civic. Are you sure you aren't interested at this price?

Good luck on that 28K price point ... maybe if you're shopping for a Chevy but not a Tesla.

Re: Tesla reports first quarterly profit in more than three years

#245
post #199
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering how most of his current businesses exist thanks to gov't incentives/tax advantages in the domains, there are legitimate criticisms to the way in which his businesses are run. Though I think it's proof the system works! Offer tax incentives for electric cars, get electric cars. Though it seems like Musk isn't making a super sustainable business just yet.... Solar City is arguably "good solar", but that com…

You mean "Considering how most of his current businesses exist with some subsidies to slightly counter the massive government subsidies to fossile fuel companies and polluting-car externalities" ?

It's odd how these subsidies are somehow seen as a negative for Tesla, when they are not tesla specific, they apply to all EV regardless of manufacturer, in addition the incumbents have been getting subsidies and bailouts for longer than Tesla Motors has existed and it would take a huge amount of government support for tesla to come even close to say GM in terms of public money received.

Re: Tesla reports first quarterly profit in more than three years

#246
post #67

"Of 20 analysts covering the company, seven have a "sell" rating on the stock, four rate it "buy" or higher and nine have a "hold", according to Thomson Reuters data." === proof that something is very wrong with a world defined by speculators

How is a company with a market cap of $32 billion making a $20 million quarterly profit proof that something is wrong with people who think that company might be overvalued? Stock ratings are not about how a company is doing but about how a company is doing relative to its price.

stock price is about the sum of all future cash flow. not current profit level. you can have different forecasts, but you cannot say the act of making forecast itself is nonsense.

Re: Tesla reports first quarterly profit in more than three years

#247
post #34

Really great news! But something that shouldn't be overlooked is the discounts they gave in Q3 to push deliveries up. First, those that know me know that I am a Tesla FANATIC. My girlfriend once challenged me to not talk about Tesla (motors, energy, something) for a 24 hour period. I dunno if I've ever done that honestly. I'm also an owner (no surprise given my fanaticism, lucky to be able to afford one). And I also…

> "I also happen to know a lot of the people who bought a heavily discounted Tesla in Q3 feel kind of burned that right at the beginning of Q4 Tesla announced the new Autopilot hardware (that isn't retrotfitable on old vehicles). " Wow I guess this is the best proof of how Tesla is really changing the way auto owners think, this is something that wasn't unthinkable before Tesla and their over the air updates. Can you…

> Can you imagine a BMW owner complaining that his 2015 model does not have stuff that new 2017 models will get??

I am complaining, at least inwardly :-)

Re: Tesla reports first quarterly profit in more than three years

#248
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no notice from BMW, the sales guy, or the press Tesla has done this for a long while. Newer larger battery pack options, newer interior and tech package options, and completely new performance and configuration options (insane, dual motor, and autopilot 1.0 all hit at once) While there wern't announcements ahead of time what was coming, there were often advance notice that there was an announcement coming, and even…

Yes, they keep doing it, and if you pay close attention to Tesla, you’re aware of it. You’re also aware of rumors of AP2 coming. If you don’t follow Tesla news, you’re in for a surprise. Regardless, I think it’s a fair critique: buyer’s remorse is a real thing with Tesla. It’s one thing to buy a $3000 computer from Apple and have it replaced with a much better one the next week, it’s another to buy a $100K car and ha…

It doesn't help that Tesla tends to have long delays for cars.

For instance, let's say I pre-ordered a Model 3 now. But I won't get it the first half of 2019. And then a month later, Tesla announces Model 3 with Autopilot 2.5 hardware or whatever, holographic HUD, and so on. And that new car will ship within 2 months. Then I'd feel pretty screwed by Tesla...

Re: Tesla reports first quarterly profit in more than three years

#249
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does this comparison keep coming up? Relative growth and absolute count is not the same. Neither is the company in the same phase. Neither is there demand for 9MM Teslas per year.

> Relative growth and absolute count is not the same. That's exactly why it keeps coming up. It's easy to grow 50% when you're making a relatively small number of items, it's another thing entirely when you're much larger. So for Tesla to post these growth figures is meaningless without taking the actual numbers of cars shipped into account.

Firstly, I don't think this way "easy". It may be easier. Secondly, I don't think that's obviously true. In fact, I doubt it. If you get into millions and millions you've probably already encountered and solved most every scaling problem you will ever have. When you are in the lower numbers there are multiple different levels of scaling, all of which need to be solved.

I don't think the apples to oranges comparison helps make the point anyway. It's just a throw-away. If someone writes "Toyota makes 9MM cars", I discard as "wrong thread". Even if the difficulty curve changes shape against Tesla starting right now, Toyota's production capacity remains pretty irrelevant.

Re: Tesla reports first quarterly profit in more than three years

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice find, that helps. My reading is that it's slightly more than an artifact: Tesla is guaranteeing a residual, so the sale to the bank is conditional and so cannot be recorded as a simple sale. GAAP strikes me as a set of things that, alone, are good intentions but combined are more confusing than they need to be.

Makes sense. And thanks for your persistent questioning, I learned some new stuff!

Thanks for your patience :) I learned some new stuff too!
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