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The “432 Hz vs. 440 Hz” conspiracy theory

jakubmarian.com

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Re: The “432 Hz vs. 440 Hz” conspiracy theory

#241

Post by wtbob »

anigbrowl wrote: post #76

I have been following this for years, being both a sound engineer and a bit of a hippie who knows a lot of other hippies. The basic issue is that 432 is a numerologically interesting number compared to 440. So if it's more interesting it should be better for artistic purposes, goes the argument. However this falls flat as soon as you consider that the 432 is only interesting relative to the completely arbirtrary dura…

> But unless the music also contains some 1Hz modulation (or a power-of-two multiple thereof) then the 432 base frequency isn't related to anything fundamental in musical terms.

Presumably the music's timing is based on seconds, though, right? That might conceivably mean that primeness could potentially matter. I don't really think that it does, mind. But I'm not so quick to think that it doesn't, either.

Re: The “432 Hz vs. 440 Hz” conspiracy theory

#242

Post by timehastoldme »

tpeo wrote: post #216
timehastoldme wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What??? Tighter differences between each notes' frequencies?? Please explain this thought.

Well, I'm assuming that the ease or difficulty of recognizing the difference between two notes bears some proportion to difference between their frequencies (the frequency of one minus that of the other), and not just their relative frequencies. The intervals in the 432Hz are "tighter" in the sense that, because the interval they correspond to in 440Hz is smaller for every possible interval, there are more notes in 4…

Ok, I see what you mean.

Then most songs would sound 'better' a half-step down, etc.

Re: The “432 Hz vs. 440 Hz” conspiracy theory

#243

Post by ytpete »

tikhonj wrote: post #192
phire wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course almost nobody knows this because nobody notices it. Though, I can now instantly tell if I'm watching a PAL or NTSC version of Star Trek TNG based on the the first few bars of the opening song. Which is weird, because I don't even have pitch perfect hearing and I'm not even that musically inclined.

I'm guessing you've watched a lot of Star Trek? I figure this is just the human mind's wonderful proclivity towards learning patterns. I was actually thinking about a similar but less subtle example: I use a transit system that involves tagging on and off with an RFID card (Clipper on Caltrain). When you tag your card, it makes one of three different noises depending on what happen—and I couldn't possibly tell you wh…

I wouldn't be surprised if there was some psychology behind the choice of sounds when you tag the transit card. Just like visual "affordances" in UI design, there may be certain audio characteristics that people will associate with "good" vs. "error," for example. I recall one study showing that people almost universally feel certain shapes and word sounds are "friendlier" than others (albeit by very subtle margins). And I believe in many languages people interpret pitch inflections to tell when a sentence is continuing vs. finished - think about reading someone a serial number out loud, and how if you were to pronounce the last number the same as all the others it will sound like you left the sentence dangling, with more digits still to come.

I'd be really interested to read anything more concrete about audio affordances though, if anyone knows of links to further research, etc!

Re: The “432 Hz vs. 440 Hz” conspiracy theory

#244

Post by sriku »

anigbrowl wrote: post #76

I have been following this for years, being both a sound engineer and a bit of a hippie who knows a lot of other hippies. The basic issue is that 432 is a numerologically interesting number compared to 440. So if it's more interesting it should be better for artistic purposes, goes the argument. However this falls flat as soon as you consider that the 432 is only interesting relative to the completely arbirtrary dura…

The article gives the same reason of arbitrariness of the second to debunk the numerology, but then goes on to say that the BBC chose 440hz because 439 is a prime number and is harder to generate electronically ... Which is nonsense as well ... Though it may have been true relative to price of components at the time.

Re: The “432 Hz vs. 440 Hz” conspiracy theory

#245

Post by zodiac »

harrumph wrote: post #191

I have no idea why this laughable article/idea persists, but the actual answer about 440 Hz is completely commercial and mundane. Decisions made by the J.C. Deagan mallet instrument company at 1770 W. Berteau in Chicago are the sole reasons why A=440. I once worked in this building, still called the Deagan building. The company made chimes and xylophones and instruments. They had customers all over the US. Each symph…

Where did the article that nazis were involved?

Re: The “432 Hz vs. 440 Hz” conspiracy theory

#246

Post by zodiac »

anigbrowl wrote: post #76

I have been following this for years, being both a sound engineer and a bit of a hippie who knows a lot of other hippies. The basic issue is that 432 is a numerologically interesting number compared to 440. So if it's more interesting it should be better for artistic purposes, goes the argument. However this falls flat as soon as you consider that the 432 is only interesting relative to the completely arbirtrary dura…

Did you read the whole article?

Re: The “432 Hz vs. 440 Hz” conspiracy theory

#247

Post by vidarh »

sriku wrote: post #244
anigbrowl wrote: post #76

I have been following this for years, being both a sound engineer and a bit of a hippie who knows a lot of other hippies. The basic issue is that 432 is a numerologically interesting number compared to 440. So if it's more interesting it should be better for artistic purposes, goes the argument. However this falls flat as soon as you consider that the 432 is only interesting relative to the completely arbirtrary dura…

The article gives the same reason of arbitrariness of the second to debunk the numerology, but then goes on to say that the BBC chose 440hz because 439 is a prime number and is harder to generate electronically ... Which is nonsense as well ... Though it may have been true relative to price of components at the time.

Consider that as late as in the 80's on home computers, frequencies for all kinds of stuff were often chosen to be convenient factors of a suitable starting point so that they could be generated by stepping down frequencies from a single crystal.

Frequency choices even then were driven by cost/complexity to the extent that e.g. rather than trying to synchronise things in other ways or decoupling various clock rates, the CPU clock rate of many computer models were chosen based on how other things were clocked.

The Commodore 64's and Amiga's at least were both clocked slightly differently in the US and Europe because the CPU clock affected bus timings, and bus timings affected the custom chips for graphics and sound, and it was most convenient to time it all to match the video refresh rate of NTSC and PAL respectively.

Given that, I'm not at all surprised if the BBC decades earlier found it more complicated to handle 439Hz given whatever clock signals they had available to create it from and/or wanted to be able to match it against.

Re: The “432 Hz vs. 440 Hz” conspiracy theory

#248

Post by brokenmachine »

nkrisc wrote: post #91
costcopizza wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh-- pick your battles. If family members get a positive placebo effect from listening to "5 Hours High Quality BEST 432hz Meditation Healing Chakra" on YouTube...Who cares?

It's fine. But I'm not going to pretend it's not BS when they try to talk to me about it. Now my mom no longer talks to me about homeopathy.

That sounds like typical libra talk. I'm an Aries so I don't do that.

Re: The “432 Hz vs. 440 Hz” conspiracy theory

#249

Post by detaro »

vacri wrote: post #205
largote wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't the Kilogram be derived from the Liter, which in turn can be derived from the Meter? From what I recall: - 1 Liter of pure water at 4 Celsius is 1 Kg. - 1 Liter is a cube with 10 cm on each side.

I always thought it was amusing that the basic definition of the liter was taken at 4C, but that lab equipment was calibrated at 20C...

Interestingly enough it started out as being defined as 1 dm³ in the 18th century, then in the early 20th century was defined through water at highest density, then in the 60s back to 1 dm³.

Re: The “432 Hz vs. 440 Hz” conspiracy theory

#250

Post by brokenmachine »

monktastic1 wrote: post #142

I spent three months in meditation retreat some years ago. I'd never heard of this phenomenon. At some point, I started hearing various tones that weren't coming from outside. They eventually became quite loud. I noticed three tones in particular, and wrote some code to pin down their frequencies. I discovered that they were C, E, and G, where the A would have been 432 Hz (or very close to it; certainly much closer t…

> I noticed three tones in particular, and wrote some code to pin down their frequencies.

What kind of code does one write to get the exact frequency of a sound in your head?

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