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University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

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Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#241
post #181
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "A trigger warning is advance notice about subject material that may be difficult for certain students to read, hear or see." But that's not what trigger warnings are for... it's not just about mild discomfort. They're to prevent panic attacks . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trauma_trigger Whether trigger warnings are effective or not is a different matter, but of course if you portray them as being about being off…

> They're to prevent panic attacks. That might have been the original intent of a "trigger warning", but their sheer prevalence today indicates that this is either no longer true or else we have nothing less than a massive public health emergency that we should be dropping everything else to work to address.

I don't see a prevalence of trigger warnings. I do see a prevalence of people talking about trigger warnings.

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#242
post #121
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume people like Shapiro collect fees from the school for speaking, so would it be correct to frame the issue as students not wanting their money to go into the pockets of a person that they don't support?

I don't believe so, no. DePaul claimed they blocked Shapiro from speaking due to "security concerns"[0]. In particular, students in favor of safe spaces and trigger warnings threatened to riot, block the doors, and prevent student access to the event. DePaul capitulated to this bullying by banning Shapiro. Related: California State University-Los Angeles planned on hosting Shapiro to speak, but demanded[1] the studen…

Do you believe that speakers of hate speech should be allowed on campus? I think theres a big difference between speakers you disagree with and the former.

I'm a grad student at DePaul at the loop campus so I don't really follow much of what is going on with the undergrads at the main campus, but it seems to me that the administration is taking a hard stance because of people like Milo who are mostly there for shock effect and not because they are saying anything of substance. His speech was successfully protested and he wasn't invited back.

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#243

There's a subtle point that's getting overshadowed by the lightning rod discussions about trigger warnings and safe spaces. The U of C is explicitly stating in this letter that if you don't agree with their values, don't come to the school. This seems uncontroversial to me, but I think it's worth affirming that self-segregation is a valid social strategy. I know segregation is a loaded word, but that's because histor…

Well put.

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#244

It's important to acknowledge that the term "safe space" means different things to different people. To the Yale protestors (who were widely supported at UChicago) the entirety of university housing at Yale was meant to be a "safe space," so it was incumbent on the university to fire professors who voiced unwelcome opinions in that space. To many of the people who are angry about this letter, "safe space" means a sup…

While I agree with you, I think it's worth noting that Yale's system of on-campus housing is drastically different than that at most universities. The residential college system offers much closer and personal interactions with a set of deans, faculty, and staff that is reinforced over the entire four years at the school. Whatever one's stance on the Yale controversy, I think it's important to distinguish Yale's housing system from standard college dorms.

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#245

There's a subtle point that's getting overshadowed by the lightning rod discussions about trigger warnings and safe spaces. The U of C is explicitly stating in this letter that if you don't agree with their values, don't come to the school. This seems uncontroversial to me, but I think it's worth affirming that self-segregation is a valid social strategy. I know segregation is a loaded word, but that's because histor…

[deleted]

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Avoidance in the form of 'trigger warnings' may actually worsen the underlying problem for people with PTSD because avoidance can strengthen the underlying fear. Successful treatment often actually involves confronting the fear, little by little, until it no longer causes discomfort: "Exposure therapy is a type of cognitive behavioral therapy[118] that involves assisting trauma survivors to re-experience distressing…

Exposure therapy can be effective, but under controlled circumstances as supervised by a professional and prepared for by the patient. Uncontrolled exposure is more likely to worsen the anxiety than extinguish it.

I feel like the idea the parent was suggesting is that avoidance behaviour itself can increase anxiety about the topic, and that encouraging it may end up being more harmful than the risk of uncontrolled exposure, especially when the result of such exposure is not necessarily negative.

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#247
I have never understood the discomfort around trigger warnings. Society has used them forever in areas that are considered sensitive. When the news warns you they're going to show graphic footage or that a story involves sex - those are trigger warnings. It's simply displaying common minimum level of empathy for the experiences of others.

Safe spaces are more complicated and (inherently) restrictive and so I understand the discomfort around those too. You can allow controversial / awful groups to exist (Nazis, KKK, etc) and provide trigger warnings for their events. Indeed, I would think that having 'opposition' groups and hosts provide their own sets of trigger warnings would be a fantastic introduction to outsiders.

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#248
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So student associations shouldn't be allowed to not allow certain people into their meetings if they're found to be abusive? Because that's the point of a safe space if you didn't know. It's not unlike support groups who can and will eject people who are known to be abusive or otherwise disclose information outside the support group without permission of all members. So, to say that safe spaces shouldn't be allowed i…

Never said anything like that, but to your point, who decides what's abusive? Because clearly, letting students decide that has prevented actual education from taking place, education that people are paying for and expecting to get. If one can't teach classic English literature or American law because the students demand trigger warnings and safe spaces, they're the problem in this equation, not the professor, and th…

"Never said anything like that, but to your point, who decides what's abusive?"

The given student association has a say in who it allows as members and as guests in to their private spaces. This has nothing to do with professors deciding to analyze the work of the Marquis de Sade (sp?). It's more about saying these associations have legal autonomy from the university itself when it comes to governing their private spaces no different than private associations being autonomous from the government in managing their private spaces as well.

"Let me reiterate that. Because trigger warnings and safe spaces are just code names for censorship, they cannot exist at the same time as a proper education, and the students that want to learn should not be punished by the stupidity of the students who only demand censorship (safe spaces and trigger warnings)."

Let me break this down here. When safe spaces are invoked they are only reasonably invoked in private spaces of student associations. This excludes class rooms of any given course on campus. So if the local LGBT students association refuse membership to some alt-right/nrx students or not to attend an open conference or just to simply not interact with specific individuals as a general rule there's no censorship in the sense of banning people from university speaking. You just happen not be free to speak in one private space independent of school functions. It's really no different than a club setting. To argue that this is censorship dilutes the meaning and impact of censorship throughout history and demands that private spaces become public spaces when case law on this matter in the United States is effectively settled (i.e. you have no right to a venue of your choice so long as that venue is private).

As for trigger warnings, this is not censorship, as I've had actual course descriptions that noted there were topics such as incest in the literature discussed and analyzed. Putting such notes in the course description effectively defines it as a trigger warning. No one is stopping the professor because in the vast majority of cases the professor was the one who wrote the description at least my university. And this wasn't some liberal bastion, either. It just happened the professor in question was sensible enough to give an accurate description of the course. Now, if you think trigger warnings are bad because people avoid courses that might cause them major emotional stress (like said talking about the topic of incest in relation to a work of fiction) then you need to show me how that violates the free speech of a professor. Don't give me this high minded bunk about "but you're there to be challenged." Because at the heart of the matter that's up to the student to take a course. If a student refuses to take a course that's not censorship that's a student refusing to take a course. It would be one thing to say that a professor should be forced by administrators to not cover the literature in question or to not offer the course, that is censorship but anything else you try to shoe horn in as censorship has none of the sufficient conditions to satisfy the definition in the most general sense.

In short, private spaces being handled by private organizations as such have the legal authority to refuse to offer their spaces as venues to anyone and for any purpose. That is the law and you can't debate it either way. Nor are trigger warnings (really they're just course descriptions) censorship since the course isn't being halted by the mere existence of them in their course descriptions in the course catalog. Nor is the absence of students who refuse to partake in courses they find troubling censorship as the professor can continue to offer the course. If they don't meet the required minimum to maintain the course that's just a tough break there. I've had courses cancelled all the time for similar reasons on far blander topics of circuitry and logic. So I'm not going to entertain nonsensical and vague definitions of censorship as such. Either produce actual evidence of what I've listed as censorship or admit you're incorrect on the matter.

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#249

This statement by the University is willfully ignorant. The University provides an officially sanctioned LGBTQ Safe Space ( https://lgbtq.uchicago.edu/page/safe-space ). Clearly the University isn't ensuring that people who think gay people are evil are also represented in those safe spaces. Furthermore, some ideas are clearly off limits. The University is not going to allow and promote legitimate arguments about whe…

If someone denies the holocaust and promotes slavery, don't they have the right to express their views? It's a very slippery slope when you let someone (you? me?) decide what speech is too dangerous to hear. Shouting fire in a crowded theater is dangerous, but letting some whacko spout about why slavery is good is entirely different.

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#250
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They're to prevent panic attacks. That might have been the original intent of a "trigger warning", but their sheer prevalence today indicates that this is either no longer true or else we have nothing less than a massive public health emergency that we should be dropping everything else to work to address.

It does seem that way. It's kind of how a few people have food allergies, but a larger number of people have foods they refuse to eat despite not having allergies. It's not uncommon to find out that someone who merely has a preference to avoid an ingredient has been fibbing and calling it an "allergy" just to smooth things over socially. This is really frustrating for someone with a genuine allergy because you feel d…

very well put
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