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David Cameron announces resignation

theguardian.com

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Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#241

Post by gonvaled »

lmm wrote: post #231
gonvaled wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can try, but I do not think it is in the interest of the EU to let this drag for years, so we should force the UK to get out asap. Your interests and the EU's interests are now very loosely alligned, and in this particular matter probably in contradiction.

I think dragging it out and muddling through probably suits the EU's interests very well - after all that's very much what they've been doing when dealing with Greece.

I dont understand your Greece reference, but the EU has zero interest in having a blocker in its rangs, and politicians are acting accordingly:

“EU leaders call for UK to leave as soon as possible“

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/europe-plung...

And even clearer:

“Top EU leader: we want Britain out as soon as possible“

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/top-eu-leade...

This is no joke. This is an existential threat to the EU, and we must act firmly. I fully support these statements.

So, who is the dragger here? Get your house inmediately in order and leave.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#242

Post by reitoei »

anothermouse wrote: post #232
reitoei wrote: post #216

So your argument is basically this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUTnNKhF-EU

> So your argument is basically this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUTnNKhF-EU s/your/ their /. It is not my argument, I'm a Tory voting, skilled, financial sector worker, who voted remain. But I'm being an idiot arguing with you. I don't think dismissively posting a clip of southpark has advanced the discussion. This subject never got the detailed and grown up discussion it deserved as one side continually dismis…

No, it hasn't advanced the discussion, I was merely pointing out the absurdity of the argument. I have absolutely no doubt you are a well-educated, skilled worker, but even you know yourself, many of people are who blame immigrants for taking their jobs/disenfranchising them in some way, are gullible Sun-reading, bone-idle fuckwits who couldn't be arsed working/upskilling.

Sad but true, and frankly, as an Irish person who lived in London for years, I find the 'blame immigrants' rhetoric absolutely terrifying.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#243

Post by 010a »

Grue3 wrote: post #223
geff82 wrote: post #42

He'll go down in history as one of the worst leaders the UK ever had. Which he already was before yesterday. By the way, if he let the people decide on such a super topic as leave/remain in the EU, why does he not let his people vote on whether they want total surveillance or not? If they want a police state? Why can't they decide on stuff that affects their daily lives in a potential negative way? Or will they ignor…

>He'll go down in history as one of the worst leaders the UK ever had Talk about lack of perspective. In the long term it's absolutely insignificant. It's like people calling GWB or Obama the worst US president. Can't believe such a poorly thought out comment is at the top.

He absolutely deserves the title in this case. What will happen in the UK/Britain over the next decade will likely rival the significance of the Magna Carta, except in a mostly-negative way. And it is his fault.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#244

Post by toomanybeersies »

crdoconnor wrote: post #228
darkr wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Boris Johnson? A very charismatic idiot. His persona is that of a charismatic bumbling idiot, but idiot he is not. Underneath this persona lies a highly intelligent, disingenuous, manipulative and calculating operator. I genuinely think that he didn't believe in Brexit; rather he saw a potential route into number 10 and took a gamble on it.

>His persona is that of a charismatic bumbling idiot, but idiot he is not. Underneath this persona lies a highly intelligent, disingenuous, manipulative and calculating operator. People used to say that about George Bush too. The fact he played off his ridiculous gaffes and wasn't always illucid doesn't mean he wasn't an idiot. Bojo is conniving and he's managed to acquire a good number of strategic allies but he's s…

I've always said you don't become the president by being an idiot. Being rich (or your father being rich) only gets you so far.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#245

Post by intoverflow2 »

verbify wrote: post #71
geff82 wrote: post #42

He'll go down in history as one of the worst leaders the UK ever had. Which he already was before yesterday. By the way, if he let the people decide on such a super topic as leave/remain in the EU, why does he not let his people vote on whether they want total surveillance or not? If they want a police state? Why can't they decide on stuff that affects their daily lives in a potential negative way? Or will they ignor…

Do you forget what a shambles Tony Blair was? Led us into a pointless war that cost 100,000s of lives. As bad as David Cameron was, he kept us out of war.

> As bad as David Cameron was, he kept us out of war

If this is all we're holding politicians to then it's a really sorry state.

The man has doomed a generation and removed the easiest way for that generation to leave the country and prosper elsewhere.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#246

Post by Analemma_ »

Yhippa wrote: post #239
Analemma_ wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Normally I would agree with you and say that "worst leader ever" statements are hyperbolic when the leader is still in office, but this time I think it's appropriate. The United Kingdom is probably going to ultimately dissolve as a result of this vote, and Cameron is going to be remembered as the moron who let it happen, all because of a catastrophically failed gambit to pander to the Ukip-leaning Tories. "Worst lead…

What I don't understand is that isn't this what the people wanted? Across the pond it sounds like he tried to call someone's (pro-Brexit) bluff and lost. At the end of the day it sounds like this is what the people wanted though. I'm not seeing a lot of news about how the pro-Brexit people feel about the dissolution of the UK. Surely they knew this was an outcome.

> I'm not seeing a lot of news about how the pro-Brexit people feel about the dissolution of the UK. Surely they knew this was an outcome.

Want to know something darkly amusing? It's possible that they didn't. This is still anecdotal at this point, and of course the Remain side could be playing it up, but there are reports that at least some Leave voters intended it as a protest vote thinking it wouldn't actually happen: https://twitter.com/AdamWSweeney/status/746261907233988609

How wonderful would that be, if the biggest blunder in Britain's history happened unintentionally because some people wanted to stick it to their council. I need to go drink some more.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#247

Post by keithpeter »

simonbarker87 wrote: post #44
monk_e_boy wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of hate for him came from his inherited wealth. He had no idea how austerity was hitting people. Everyone I know who works has given up going on holiday, buying cars, buying nice food. We're all sick of it. There is plenty of money in the UK and watching a rich PM tell us to tighten our belts.... psh.

Really!? Everyone I know who works is very pleased with how the economy has recovered, many friends under 30 have bought a house (without parental help), many are nearing 40% tax bracket and my Facebook feed is full of people going on holiday. Not sure which UK you are living in but the one I'm in is pretty nice - well it was, until this vote. And before you say I'm in some kind of elite I run a small factory in the…

What does your factory manufacture?

PS: Good luck with it, lovely part of the country.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#248

Post by keithpeter »

dragonmum wrote: post #22
sz4kerto wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He is the biggest looser in this situation Except he isn't, really -- he loses his political position, but he and his family won't be existentially affected by what's going to happen, as opposed to probably tens of millions of people all around Europe.

The EU's common agricultural policy was actively favoring and subsidizing large EU based multinationals and blocking entry into the market by small scale farmers and producers in developing countries. Seems to me like a huge new market called "the UK" just opened up for genuine and fair trade. So overall, this is probably good for hundreds of millions of people around the world.

"a huge new market called "the UK" just opened up for genuine and fair trade"

That would be fun to see. How do these small farmers get stuff onto the shelves of Tesco and Lidl (while the latter are still trading here)?

Room for some intermediation?

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#249

Post by oldmanjay »

junto wrote: post #217
corin_ wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even his choice of idiot persona is an act of genius in terms of how well it has served him.

George Bush springs to mind. Though maybe he actually was a patsy.

Let's be fair here. Liberal bias requires people to either believe anyone with conservative leanings MUST be stupid or the received wisdom that liberal philosophies are naturally correct must be incomplete. There's no real choice here, every single person on earth will assume everyone else is stupid before assuming they may be wrong.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#250

Post by keithpeter »

StrangeWhiff wrote: post #221
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At last UK farmers can sell their top quality fruit and vegetables to the rest of the world.

Not without trade agreements that may take years to negotiate. Also, UK farmers get over half their income from EU subsidies. So many of them are going to go bankrupt unless they get bailed out/supported by the government. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11967049/Brexit...

Its a Tory government, of course they will be supported. Green wellies &c.

Manufacturing not so much.

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