241–250 of 449 posts
Given how long it takes universities to update course materials, I'm not sure they can compete with this kind of education programme. It's true that a lot of the fundamental computer science is missing but with senior devs on the scene, any gaps can be filled with an afternoon around a whiteboard.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
My CS degree was four years of heavy abstract thinking. If you can get those skills elsewhere great, but I don't think it's that common.
Many of those who took that CS degree never learned abstract thinking. It's not something you first learn on university it's something you develop way before that.
I can pin-point some places where I did learn various aspects of abstract thinking. I learned it by reading. Books like "Gödel, Escher, Bach", books like "Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs", or the Sequences by HN's 'Eliezer. I learned it by thinking about what I read, and also by starting hobby projects and thinking hard when doing them.
The universities, and maybe even bootcamps, may help a bit - but there's no learning of abstract thinking unless you yourself care.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
There were a few hundred applications to sort through for the position. Applicants all received the same test. The initial response is used to filter the pool and decide with whom to speak with further. Only with a filtered applicant pool is it reasonable to sit and discuss their solution with. Some criteria is needed to filter the pool, so obviously those that have submitted a better initial solution will be selecte…
There are many reasons why I think this process is broken that others have written so much at length about enough that I'm not going to bother taking the time. If it's enough for you to say that because you have a test that everyone takes and it filters your candidates so that's proof of ability, without even going into the results and asking if your test is optimizing for the correct things, there's nothing I can sa…
I don't advocate talking to every candidate but I don't think it's possible to estimate someone's skill without talking to them (even email is a form of conversation).
I find much better filters for that sort of thing are ability to follow directions and attention to detail. If you have hundreds of applications, I guarantee they're not all great spellers or communicate effectively. I value the soft skills way above programming ability (since we have to communicate effectively every day) in the early stage.
I find that it's pretty easy to demonstrate that you "have it" from portfolio, resume, cover letter and the application process.
Personally it's a huge pet peeve of mine in an interview process whenever I have to write code and there isn't some discussion about that code - to the point that I feel it a waste of my time and a strong signal not to work there.
These results aren't very surprising because this is about interviewing performance. The goal of bootcamps is "teach you enough to get a job"; they're basically gaming the interview process by teaching to the test. University programs on the other hand are "teach you CS theory"; learning to interview well is up to the student and the specific school's offering of interview training. I think there's a strong argument…
Is there? I found practical programming knowledge to be very easy to pick up due to having piles of theory that back up why it's a good idea, why it makes sense to do so, etc. You just need someone or something to tell you to do it. It's why side projects are such a good idea, you get a great wealth of knowledge just from your own mistakes/failures that will occur naturally as you map theory to reality. But you can learn so much more so much more easily when you have that theory to start with.
There are several factors that don't enter this analysis. 1. Bootcamps can be selective over a range of non-academic criteria such as interview skills, personal hygene, and prior work experience. Or to put it another way, unlike a public university, a boot camp can select for culture fit both in its internal cohorts and in the workplaces it targets. 2. Bootcamps tend to attract people with previous work experience: s…
Isn't not letting C students graduate a good thing?
It was not long ago that Computer Science degrees itself faced a similar challenge, against more well-rounded liberal arts programs, championed and prided by the Ivy Leagues. Today MIT and Stanford are ahead by the strength of their more “practical” engineering degrees. The data from Triplebyte supports the same narrative, just in greater granularity: businesses value practical skills. There is value in being balance…
I am fortunate enough to have found Holberton School, which has a two-year software engineering program that emphasizes project-based and peer-learning methods. I appreciate the balance of theory and practical work that I have to complete but most importantly, the flexibility with which I can learn.
The evolution of tech will continue to span out and eventually, these shortages will be felt outside the US.
Go to college. Life is long and it is not about passing your first interview. Real world is complex and ever changing. The point of going to college is not to acquire coding skills to pass the interview. It is about facing real world challenges: people, responsibilities, complicated decisions, uncomfortable situations etc. And hopefully at the end of it you are better prepared to take on life. It is a harder path tha…
I have a slightly more pessimistic view of the situation: Sure, bootcamp grads can write a web application just fine; after all, it's usually only CRUD. But what value are they bringing to an organization? Why would I pay them the same amount as a college graduate who undoubtedly has more total knowledge not only in CS, but in other areas as well? Ideally, a college should expose students to a diverse range of knowle…
> Why would I pay them the same amount as a college graduate These people ARE college grads. I'm not sure where this seemingly pervasive view is coming from. My class had 1 person without an undgraduate degree, and several with masters. > i.e. the ability to communicate clearly, how to do research, how to learn independently The average age of my class was 29. 6-10 years in the workforce tends to demonstrate an exist…
I wonder if this says something more about how life is lived now, and the choices we get to make because of opportunity.
Most of us are college grads, and our school is not a 12 week bootcamp. We spend 2 years learning, doing internships and coding, and there is a heavy emphasis on soft skills.