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Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

theatlantic.com

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Re: Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

#241

Post by CamperBob2 »

metafunctor wrote: post #33
jernfrost wrote: post #22

I don't agree with a lot of the conclusions of this article. E.g. they propose that voting "probably" works the same way in all other countries as the US. There are plenty of objections to be made against that. E.g. 1) the US being a two party state means that getting representatives which represents the great variety of voter opinions is exceedingly difficult. 2) US elections are so dominated by advertisement, expen…

Democracy can take many forms indeed. But let's think opportunistically, for a moment. In general, I'm inclined to think that in a democracy, the people should have more direct influence to things “closer” to them (by some measure), and less for bigger, nationwide, issues, of which they presumably have less understanding. This is, in fact, how most democratic nations work in practice. The case of Boaty McBoatface, th…

So, why not reap the PR benefits of this name? Why would they start a contest but back out when they hit the jackpot? I do not understand.

This is reminiscent of a contest on EEVBlog that Keysight just sponsored. Participants entered the contest by posting a video on Facebook describing what they would do with an oscilloscope. The person whose video garnered the most votes would win a new 20 GS/s oscilloscope with a bandwidth spec of 6 GHz and a price tag in the neighborhood of US $70,000.

Naturally, the winner turned out to be a kid who made a video about an electric water heater and got a bunch of her schoolmates to flood the voting page. The highest-ranked entry by someone with a legitimate need for a 6 GHz oscilloscope finished in a distant third place.

So Keysight did the only thing that could have avoided a giant online dumpster fire, and gave one of the scopes to each of the top three contestants. It was an expensive lesson in the failings of democracy (and in not using Facebook for anything important).

So yeah, they should just paint the name on the boat and get over it. Keysight salvaged their marketing effort by taking the high road, but you can bet they won't run this contest the same way in the future. They're lucky they didn't have to give away three dozen 6 GHz scopes to random high school kids.

Re: Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

#242

Post by [deleted] »

gumby wrote: post #212
jernfrost wrote: post #22

I don't agree with a lot of the conclusions of this article. E.g. they propose that voting "probably" works the same way in all other countries as the US. There are plenty of objections to be made against that. E.g. 1) the US being a two party state means that getting representatives which represents the great variety of voter opinions is exceedingly difficult. 2) US elections are so dominated by advertisement, expen…

> [Boaty McBoatface] represent the will of people who bothered to vote on an issue most people likely don't give a dam[n] about. Indeed the vote was obviously silly and did in fact achieve its desired goal: publicity for arctic research. The officials are insane if they don't go along with the choice. It's an opportunity for further publicity on arctic research for decades to come!

[deleted]

Re: Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

#244

Post by narag »

gaur wrote: post #163
narag wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has been. Try it now and see what happens.

Among other things, I guess those of us who don't know every piece of trivia about Spanish culture would get an explanation of what exactly is unsavory about this Blas de Lezo person.

You had it in the Wikipedia article linked by the op.

Edit... anyway: De Lezo took part in the Spanish Sucession War. In that war, Catalonia lost some fueros (middle ages common law) because it was against the Borbons (that won) and in the revisionist version of history that we're hearing in very recent years, that's tantamount to genocide.

Re: Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

#245

Post by narag »

narag wrote: post #243
pavel_lishin wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is "2004" considered close enough to "now"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%81lvaro_de_Baz%C3%A1n-clas...

No.

OK, keep downvoting. I couldn't care less. Do you think I'm being too terse? Take a look at the last edit. Or is it something else? I don't care either way.

Re: Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

#246

Post by tamana »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #241
metafunctor wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Democracy can take many forms indeed. But let's think opportunistically, for a moment. In general, I'm inclined to think that in a democracy, the people should have more direct influence to things “closer” to them (by some measure), and less for bigger, nationwide, issues, of which they presumably have less understanding. This is, in fact, how most democratic nations work in practice. The case of Boaty McBoatface, th…

So, why not reap the PR benefits of this name? Why would they start a contest but back out when they hit the jackpot? I do not understand. This is reminiscent of a contest on EEVBlog that Keysight just sponsored. Participants entered the contest by posting a video on Facebook describing what they would do with an oscilloscope. The person whose video garnered the most votes would win a new 20 GS/s oscilloscope with a…

Using Facebook to communicate is totally fine and great. Letting self-selectrd Facebook hordes make decisions is the mistake.

Re: Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

#247

Post by tamana »

KON_Air wrote: post #124
dalke wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For that matter, most countries are smaller than the US, both in size and population. There are only two countries with a larger population. China has one ruling political party, and India has had prime ministers from many different parties. For a full accounting, look back to the rise of the two party system during the Jacksonian era, or the current system of Democrats and Republicans (replacing the Whig party) star…

I am always mystified by how a country with such diverse geography and socioeconomics can be represented by just two parties.

It is represented poorly. But it's not clear that combating parliamentary factions would do better.

It's mystifying how such a diverse and populous country can be represented well at all. And the evidence is stacking up to show that it can't, in USA, Russia, China, and India.

Re: Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

#248

Post by tamana »

kamjam wrote: post #233
jernfrost wrote: post #22

I don't agree with a lot of the conclusions of this article. E.g. they propose that voting "probably" works the same way in all other countries as the US. There are plenty of objections to be made against that. E.g. 1) the US being a two party state means that getting representatives which represents the great variety of voter opinions is exceedingly difficult. 2) US elections are so dominated by advertisement, expen…

> My other objection is that Boaty McBoatface, somehow represents the will of the people. No it doesn't. It represent the will of people who bothered to vote on an issue most people likely don't give a dam about. If a choice was demanded of the whole population then Boaty McBoatface would never have won. This can be said about the election in pretty much all western societies. There have been several occasions where…

Plurality rule, not majority rule.

Re: Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

#249

Post by tamana »

maxerickson wrote: post #137
jernfrost wrote: post #22

I don't agree with a lot of the conclusions of this article. E.g. they propose that voting "probably" works the same way in all other countries as the US. There are plenty of objections to be made against that. E.g. 1) the US being a two party state means that getting representatives which represents the great variety of voter opinions is exceedingly difficult. 2) US elections are so dominated by advertisement, expen…

States could probably change the 2 party system by eliminating the preferential access that the parties have to the ballot. Imagine if the national conventions were deciding which of the many already balloted candidates to endorse, rather than a media circus driving national attention to a smaller and smaller number of candidates that are then placed on state ballots by the parties months after an independent would h…

Why would any Democrat or Republican candidate prefer that process over the party process?

Re: Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

#250

Post by gpvos »

narag wrote: post #244
gaur wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Among other things, I guess those of us who don't know every piece of trivia about Spanish culture would get an explanation of what exactly is unsavory about this Blas de Lezo person.

You had it in the Wikipedia article linked by the op. Edit... anyway: De Lezo took part in the Spanish Sucession War. In that war, Catalonia lost some fueros (middle ages common law) because it was against the Borbons (that won) and in the revisionist version of history that we're hearing in very recent years, that's tantamount to genocide.

Thanks, that was the explanation you could have given several posts ago. While skimming the Wikipedia article, I noted that he got a statue in Madrid, then skipped the rest of that paragraph, which was the only one that hinted at this controversy, and even then did not give the reason you give here. Please excuse us for not following the Spanish news so closely, and then downvoting you for your sheer arrogance.
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