Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks • Hacker News Board

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#241

Post by WalterBright » Tue, Apr 12, 2016, 10:25 PM UTC

throwaway_xx9 wrote: post #238

WalterBright wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For fun, listen to David Cassidy's work during the Partridge Family years, when the studio wrote the songs and provided musicians for him, and compare to Cassidy's post-PF work. What, you never heard of his post-PF work? :-) It's because it's awful. Ditto the Monkees. At least Cassidy could sing (and damn, he was good). The Monkees couldn't write, sing, or play without massive help.

Actually, two of the Monkees were in bands before their "acting career" and they performed live together without assistance. They broke up because of a no-holds barred fight with their producer/svengali, declining sales and an awful vanity film (think Spiceworld but much worse), but their albums still sold.

And one of them even grudgingly admitted decades later that the studio had been right in not letting him play.

I bought one of their post albums where they wrote their own songs and played their own instruments. Sorry, it's just awful compared with the studio produced albums. Nobody remembers those songs for good reason.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#242

Post by 542458 » Tue, Apr 12, 2016, 10:26 PM UTC

baldfat wrote: post #23

I owned a SMALL Record Label and Studio. I was (still?) good at picking out talent in bands. The Whole Industry Sucks I had two bands that ended up on Major Labels and Toured the World. I met a kid on the street wearing one of my Bands shirts and struck up a conversation. They still love the band 10 years later. These guys per person made at the TOP $7,000 in profit after expenses were paid. One band did a KickStarte…

So maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but how is Zao Solid's biggest selling album? None of Zao's albums lasted longer than a week on the billboard 200. They've had much bigger bands signed - ABR, Demon Hunter, Underoath...

http://www.billboard.com/biz/search/charts?f[0]=tm_imprintla...

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#243

Post by jaimebuelta » Tue, Apr 12, 2016, 10:30 PM UTC

copperx wrote: post #233

WalterBright wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watch the movie "The Wrecking Crew". Essentially, the studio fixes the nascent tune penned by the artist, and provides studio musicians to play on the recordings. The band rarely plays, or even sings, on the album. The reason is simple, they don't play that well, or sing that well, and the studio musicians do. This is one big reason why bands/singers/artists need labels. They're not able to turn the lyrics on the bac…

> This is one big reason why bands/singers/artists need labels. They're not able to turn the lyrics on the back of a napkin into a credible album on their own. You're incredibly mistaken. Yes, the Backstreet Boys/One Direction were exactly what you are describing, as are any major acts. But bands outside "mainstream" music are anything but pretty faces. One can write credible music without production. See: Pixies, Th…

@WalterBright: (wrong Quincy, you mean Quincy Jones ;-)

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#244

Post by WalterBright » Tue, Apr 12, 2016, 10:33 PM UTC

jaimebuelta wrote: post #243

copperx wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is one big reason why bands/singers/artists need labels. They're not able to turn the lyrics on the back of a napkin into a credible album on their own. You're incredibly mistaken. Yes, the Backstreet Boys/One Direction were exactly what you are describing, as are any major acts. But bands outside "mainstream" music are anything but pretty faces. One can write credible music without production. See: Pixies, Th…

@WalterBright: (wrong Quincy, you mean Quincy Jones ;-)

Thanks for the correction! Fixed.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#245

Post by j_s » Tue, Apr 12, 2016, 10:37 PM UTC

dudifordMann wrote: post #14

I always thought the age of the internet, especially with modern bandwidths, could be the end of large labels for the music industry (or publishing houses for literature). I understand (to a naive degree) that the labels establish large networks, and complex licensing with public avenues like the radio or concert halls. It is also interesting that that most self published artists get the semi-derogatory term of "Indi…

Sites like http://noisetrade.com/ recognize that the majority of artists' best chance at a steady income is on tour, so they give away the music as promotion.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#246

Post by musesum » Tue, Apr 12, 2016, 10:42 PM UTC

ghostbuster wrote: post #131

jdietrich wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steve Albini's essay The Problem With Music is essential reading. It explains in detail the catastrophically bad financial outlook for most musicians. http://www.negativland.com/news/?page_id=17

Steve Albini recently gave an insightful talk on the current state of the music business as he sees it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz_CPzuwSk4

Thanks! Here is the text: http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/nov/17/steve-albinis-k...

I worked at Snocap for a while. Like that Snocap wanted to enable indy artists to self publish. But, the major labels wanted to control the "distribution" of their content. "Their" content. I left.

Now, I'm thinking of getting back into it. Maybe enhance live gigs. This talk is really timely and inspiring!

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#247

Post by CuriousSkeptic » Tue, Apr 12, 2016, 10:44 PM UTC

baldfat wrote: post #153

pink_dinner wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you create a 'middle class' when there is no money left in the industry for smaller artists? Pandora pays the superstars well and if you aren't getting millions of plays, you aren't making enough to even provide for yourself. This all started with file sharing 15 years ago. Everyone thought they were helping out the independent artists, but in reality, it made it so they could no longer compete without a huge…

> Everyone thought they were helping out the independent artists, but in reality, it made it so they could no longer compete without a huge corporation backing them. File sharing has only helped big labels by increasing the barrier to entry. Speaking about Indie Music I'm the SMALL Record Label. The money comes in through sales of Merch, Gigs and selling CD/MP3. I think there has never been a time better for Indie Mu…

I think you're spot on at 4). Just the other day I gave up on buying music for this exact reason and went with a YouTube player.

This is the service I'm looking for:

A free service optimized at promoting new music, or just random radio. Medium bit rate MP3 ok if 320kbps can be sold for a low monthly fee instead. Spotify is way too expensive for this, use case.

An added value store for those rare gems I actually want to spend money on. For me, most importantly, high quality recordings in lossless CD-quality. For other it might be fan memberships to get pre releases or other bonus things.

To me the problem is he either or thing. Either I have to buy lots of insanely expensive downloads in iTunes or something, and then listen only to that. Or, I can get the opportunity to discover new things in Spotify or tidal for equally insanely expensive service fee, but have no option to keep discoveries besides keep paying said insane fee.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#248

Post by EGreg » Tue, Apr 12, 2016, 10:46 PM UTC

ascendantlogic wrote: post #188

sneak wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally anyone can put a streaming app into the major app stores these days and bypass all of this. Why are the Big 3 still in this chokehold position? Is the market failing, or do they actually provide valuable services that can't be obtained elsewhere? In either case: why is that?

They own the rights to everything . I believe the RIAA gets paid even if music is played/streamed that they don't own the rights to, until the musicians come claim the money. Movies and music showed how much power they have over the last two decades once Napster and later torrenting lit a fire under their asses. It's not just our government that is in their pockets. The TPP is a good example of them using the US' pos…

What do you mean they get paid for music that is played which they don't own the rights to?? How does it even work?

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#249

Post by EGreg » Tue, Apr 12, 2016, 10:46 PM UTC

ascendantlogic wrote: post #188

sneak wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally anyone can put a streaming app into the major app stores these days and bypass all of this. Why are the Big 3 still in this chokehold position? Is the market failing, or do they actually provide valuable services that can't be obtained elsewhere? In either case: why is that?

They own the rights to everything . I believe the RIAA gets paid even if music is played/streamed that they don't own the rights to, until the musicians come claim the money. Movies and music showed how much power they have over the last two decades once Napster and later torrenting lit a fire under their asses. It's not just our government that is in their pockets. The TPP is a good example of them using the US' pos…

What do you mean they get paid for music that is played which they don't own the rights to?? How does it even work?

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#250

Post by InclinedPlane » Tue, Apr 12, 2016, 10:51 PM UTC

proksoup wrote: post #86

Animats wrote: post #84

Musicians getting rich was a brief phenomenon. Historically, musicians ranked below bartenders. Making phonograph records was a process with expensive tooling, manufacturing, and distribution costs. Radio was an industry with limited airtime and a small number of stations. These factors created an industry with few songs produced in large numbers, resulting in the "rock star" industry. That's over. Through heavy prom…

Ha, you had me til the AI part. Personally I figure the musicians will have the last jobs, along with designers. Really artists generally speaking will be the most difficult AI, no?

Exactly. Music isn't algorithms, it's communication, it's emotional connection. You might be able to fake even that, but it's not going to be very good. The best and most potent music is stuff that connects to human experience. You're not going to get something like Adele's "Hello" or Pink Floyd's "The Wall" out of a computer until you get computers that are sentient and share the same experiences as humans. At which point they'll be people too anyway.