San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents • Hacker News Board

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#241

Post by hindsightbias » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 10:02 PM UTC

aetherson wrote: post #206

whack wrote: post #111

It's hard to overstate the impact this is going to have on San Francisco, long-term. As Technology becomes the most important industry in America, a well-governed San Francisco could have positioned itself as the next NYC. The hub where all of tech gathers, the same way all of finance gathered in Wall St. Replace the 70 year old 2-storey homes with Manhattan style apartment buildings, and rent in San Francisco would…

The idea that in-fill development could have possibly made a drastic change in rents in San Francisco is genuinely crazy . I see people making that claim all the time, and it's madness, guys. Even if literally every density-increasing project was rubber-stamped with zero money or time cost, how many housing units do you think that this city could possibly have added in the last fifteen years? Unless you're proposing…

The mayors office or some development chief said it would take 100K units to make a dent. That was late 2014 I think.

We all know those would be luxury units, but it would add 20K below-market, so there's that.

As always, I stand ready to let them bring a bulldozer to their favorite Mission block as long as I can bring one to Palo Alto and Atherton.

For some reason, people just see that as a cray-cray demand...

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#242

Post by im_down_w_otp » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 10:04 PM UTC

ebiester wrote: post #195

timr wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"a well-governed San Francisco could have positioned itself as the next NYC. The hub where all of tech gathers, the same way all of finance gathered in Wall St. Replace the 70 year old 2-storey homes with Manhattan style apartment buildings, and rent in San Francisco would have remained very reasonable, despite the rapid economic growth. This would have prevented exactly this problem where tech workers are forced to…

I've thought about that, but as far as I can tell, it means about $10-$15k of equipment and a dedicated work room. I need a mobile-connected "smart" whiteboard for every team member, a good microphone, webcam, speakers, a separate computer + monitor devoted to video conferencing, and a team that is geographically dispersed rather than partially-colocated. ...and hopefully, everyone has first class redundant internet,…

The difference in competitive salary for me between SF and PDX (where I live) is ~$70k.

Which you have to pay yearly, not as a one-time discounted cost. In fact even down at the very, very low-end of tech-related jobs (~$50k in PDX) the difference between SF and PDX is ~$18k.

There is literally no shape of tech-oriented business you could operate where having to spend only $15k per employee when they're onboarded isn't a net financial benefit compared to having to pay SF-area competitive salaries for the same positions.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#243

Post by msoad » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 10:06 PM UTC

msoad wrote: post #235

I live in a high rise in SF and pay $4400 for a one bedroom. Although it sounds expensive but it's like $800 more than the least expensive place we could find near this place but it's a well built apartment with lots of amenities. I thought about moving out of SF but I don't have any social connection outside of San Francisco. Plus weather is very nice here and there are lots of diverse cultural events happening in S…

I don't know why I'm getting downvoted! Don't you want to hear WHY people paying those rents or you want to believe everybody paying those rents are just plain stupid?!

Markets are smart!

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#244

Post by knodi123 » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 10:07 PM UTC

dionidium wrote: post #77

pessimizer wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So projects, then.

That's a glib response, but I do want to bring attention to how often this discussion generates such glib responses. If it's not, "so, projects, then" it's "so, you want San Francisco to look like Manhattan, then?" or some equivalent. Notice how these responses do absolutely nothing to address the issue . They exist only to express dissatisfaction with realistic options. Again, you can either build to meet demand or…

> Again, you can either build to meet demand or expect higher prices. Those are the options.

Or enact preferential laws, or use vandalism in order to drive demand down, or make newcomers feel unsafe or unwelcome.

Those alternatives are not entirely rational, nor necessarily effective- but they are human nature, and not that rare.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#245

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 10:08 PM UTC

geebee wrote: post #223

asfakeaccount wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern mid rise and skyscrapers are actually safer in earthquakes than the Victoria homes of San Francisco. If our housing consisted of modern housing our city would suffer way less damages than what will happen today if the big one hits.

The french quarter in new orleans is also probably less safe than modern buildings, but I wouldn't want to see it torn down just because rents would be cheaper. SF does need to build, badly, but I'm wary of the term NIMBY-ism. It is descriptive, but I think it invites false equivalence. There are degrees of NIMBY. I actually think that some of the burbs, like walnut creek or mountain view (especially the latter) have…

[deleted]

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#246

Post by CoachRufus87 » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 10:11 PM UTC

sfotoatx wrote: post #130

Lots of naysayers on HN, but I left SF last year and moved to Austin. I have zero regrets. In SF, my 1 bedroom, 650 square foot apartment in SOMA went from $2,600 to $3,200 over 3 years. In Austin, my salary went down $10k to $120k/yr. My 2 bedroom, 1,100 square foot apartment is $1,150/mo. The tech scene here isn't as vibrant as SF, but there's still plenty of great meet ups. All in all, yes there are some things I…

In what part of town did you find a 2br for $1,150?

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#247

Post by kough » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 10:12 PM UTC

qntty wrote: post #213

sfotoatx wrote: post #130

Lots of naysayers on HN, but I left SF last year and moved to Austin. I have zero regrets. In SF, my 1 bedroom, 650 square foot apartment in SOMA went from $2,600 to $3,200 over 3 years. In Austin, my salary went down $10k to $120k/yr. My 2 bedroom, 1,100 square foot apartment is $1,150/mo. The tech scene here isn't as vibrant as SF, but there's still plenty of great meet ups. All in all, yes there are some things I…

Sorry if this is off-topic (and maybe a bit personal), but as a recent graduate, I'm not sure what I would do with all that extra money. What do you (or most people) generally spend it on? I make less than that, but if I didn't have student loans, I wouldn't know what to do with it besides leave it in the bank.

Give it time, you'll manage to think of something.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#248

Post by largote » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 10:12 PM UTC

metanoia wrote: post #218

humbleMouse wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny you mentioned not being able to get a good meal after 9:30pm. That was the most frustrating thing about being in San Francisco for me. I hated that the whole bay seemed to shut down @10pm - almost as if everybody has to wake up the next morning to work another 12 hour day to pay the insane rent.....

It's because everyone in SF seems to be a morning person. In my building everyone (except me) is asleep by 10pm. In NYC things are only getting started at 10.

Definitely this, it's ridiculous how early stuff closes around here and how early people go out. Moving from Mexico it was a big shock.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#249

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 10:12 PM UTC

nunez wrote: post #228

timr wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"a well-governed San Francisco could have positioned itself as the next NYC. The hub where all of tech gathers, the same way all of finance gathered in Wall St. Replace the 70 year old 2-storey homes with Manhattan style apartment buildings, and rent in San Francisco would have remained very reasonable, despite the rapid economic growth. This would have prevented exactly this problem where tech workers are forced to…

> I live in SF, but I wouldn't make the choice to move here today. It simply isn't worth Manhattan prices to live in a city full of tech bros where you can't get a good meal after 9:30. This one took me by surprise when I visited SF for the first time five years ago. I thought it would be booming with activity just like NYC, so I thought nothing of trying to find food when I arrived at ~11pm. NOTHING. Nothing was ope…

[deleted]

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#250

Post by rconti » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 10:16 PM UTC

cubano wrote: post #234

jimminy wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that everything closed so early blew me away, when I moved there. Compared to the middle of nowhere WV it made zero sense. Even the grocery stores closed by midnight in SF. In WV, you can find food at most places until 12-1am 7 days a week. And the major local grocery is a Walmart, which is open 24 hours. Last Easter I had no clue nothing would be open, and didn't prepare for that. So I just had some crap pi…

I still to this day argue that by a significant margin, the best thing about living in Vegas was the everything goes 24-hour lifestyle where you can literally do or eat anything you want 24/365.

I wouldn't argue against that being the best thing Vegas has going for it.