Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

spectrum.ieee.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 428 posts

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#241

Post by mathattack »

IndianAstronaut wrote: post #135
dredmorbius wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Among other factors mentioned: employer-specific skillsets. Technology jobs are very highly specialised. And I'm not just speaking of computer tech. I'm old enough to have seen several generations of obsoleted "gold tickets". Nuclear Engineering, future destroyed March 28, 1979. Freeway engineers, the freeway protests of the 1960s/1970s. Big Three auto manufacturers, dream destroyed with the first oil embargo, and su…

This is why I think learning new marketable skills should be everyone's hobby. Also, in our field or any professional field, you really should be very financially secure after 50 so that a job loss doesn't hurt you.

Easier said than done if you have kids.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#242

Post by maxxxxx »

reddytowns wrote: post #162
dave_sullivan wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That pay and performance ought to be correlated? Double standard and all.

If you hire a worker for minimum wage to stock shelves, and they do a shitty job of it, do you blame the worker? Or is it your fault for making a poor hiring decision? The same question applies with a CEO, which the shareholders, presumably, voted in. They could have put in someone else, maybe someone who, gasp, charges more , to run a $100 billion company. I don't understand this attitude, as if "the powers that be"…

For years we have been told that the increase in CEO pay is linked to performance. That means they get a lot of credit when things go well and should take the blame when things don't go well.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#243

Post by jmspring »

x5n1 wrote: post #229
MikeNomad wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trying to work with your analogy... Does that mean H1Bs are the sharks, or the chum?

H1Bs are our century's slaves, imported to work the tech plantations. Cheaper than locals. Fewer rights. Easier to exploit. And also make their owners a lot of money. In this case they are better off for it, that much has changed.

I'm mixed on your analogy. I would rather argue, H1Bs are the modern day SCABS (union comparison) when you consider Tata and the other body shops. They are there to be used by companies break down wages, remove workers, and ostensibly reduce costs.

Reality is, they do displace workers, but over the long terms costs go up due to lost customers and revenue and the need to replace those workers with competent unsourced individuals (happening a lot over the last 3-5 years).

This is not speaking to the general H1B individual, only those that places like Tata and IBM have been hiring to "offshore work" and "reduce costs"; and those same companies slowly lose enterprise customers fed up with the lack of quality.

HP was another company that took on contracts providing corporate IT services, outsourced them and then found customers firing them and then insourcing talent.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#244

Post by megrimlock »

Florin_Andrei wrote: post #116
moonlighter wrote: post #56

Meanwhile, IBM's CEO Ginny Rometty not only pocketed a salary of $1.6M in 2015, but also took a bonus of $4.6M. Not bad for 16 straight quarters of shrinking sales, evaporating profits and a falling stock price. http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-ibm-s-ceo-w...

Well, renting a place on Elysium must be pretty expensive.

Thankfully the executive health plan has 100% coverage so the dna regen and orbital massage treatments are gratis. It's the little things.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#245

Post by Gibbon1 »

SilasX wrote: post #131
jwiley wrote: post #97

During the dot-com bust of the early 2000s, I was working at a super-market. One of the guys stocking shelves was a software engineer laid off by a large company after 40 years. The management at Winn Dixie put him stacking boxes in the freezer section...since they knew he needed the money and wouldn't quit. Maybe he deserved to get fired, maybe he didn't. The lesson to me that has been reinforced over my career in t…

And learn how to job search. There's surely a better job that guy could have found.

I've noted one reason keeping up with and having good relations with coworkers is important. Helps you get work later. Especially true as you get older your chance of finding a job via a cold call goes way down.

But even so in a big downturn you may find all your industry contacts are in the same boat as you are. I had a lot of friends in the web industry all out of work 2001-2004. And in a fast changing field 18 months out of work is bad news because your experience rapidly becomes obsolete.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#246

Post by SilasX »

johnward wrote: post #223
SilasX wrote: post #113

Anyone know how this affects their Watson division? They have a new SF office and they've been recruiting pretty heavily in the Bay Area.

Watson is a growth play. I would expect it to be the last group affected.

What do you base that on?

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#247

Post by SilasX »

acdha wrote: post #216
SilasX wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And learn how to job search. There's surely a better job that guy could have found.

Other people have pointed out how rough the period around 2000 was but it's also worth looking at how similar things were the previous time that'd happened in the early 90s when the defense contractors laid off a ton of engineers as the Cold War died down. That meant that you had large numbers of people with similar backgrounds all on the job market, in the same areas at the same time, competing for a sharply reduced…

A lot of people are responding with historical examples of qualified people unable to find jobs, but I think that strengthens my point. If you can do aircraft stress analysis, you're qualified to do a whole host of technical jobs with very little retraining; it's just a matter of finding those who are willing to take a chance. You don't have to wait for another stress analysis job.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#248

Post by rtpg »

mathattack wrote: post #123
mattgrice wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Say you're a support person working at IBM in Dubuque, Iowa, where local and state taxpayers spent $50M to lure IBM in a delusion of becoming a tech hub. [1] You specialize in Lotus Notes support for local businesses like Hormel. Last year, IBM laid off 2/3 of their Dubuque workforce, 700 people, in a city of 60,000. More than 1% of the population. Your only skill is Notes, same as dozens of other people that were la…

Very good point - the human toll is tough. Did Dubuque get anything in writing about the jobs to be provided? $50M in tax breaks to support 1000 jobs is very expensive!

This might be a case of (X-50 Million) (X being the taxes on 1000 jobs) is bigger than 0 (amount of taxes collected on non-existent IBM office)

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#249

Post by reddytowns »

maxxxxx wrote: post #242
reddytowns wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you hire a worker for minimum wage to stock shelves, and they do a shitty job of it, do you blame the worker? Or is it your fault for making a poor hiring decision? The same question applies with a CEO, which the shareholders, presumably, voted in. They could have put in someone else, maybe someone who, gasp, charges more , to run a $100 billion company. I don't understand this attitude, as if "the powers that be"…

For years we have been told that the increase in CEO pay is linked to performance. That means they get a lot of credit when things go well and should take the blame when things don't go well.

Things break, plans fail, people lie. Get over it.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#250

Post by reddytowns »

pyre wrote: post #227
reddytowns wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you hire a worker for minimum wage to stock shelves, and they do a shitty job of it, do you blame the worker? Or is it your fault for making a poor hiring decision? The same question applies with a CEO, which the shareholders, presumably, voted in. They could have put in someone else, maybe someone who, gasp, charges more , to run a $100 billion company. I don't understand this attitude, as if "the powers that be"…

I think some of the resentment comes from "Golden Parachutes" too. While it's stupid for the Board to allow a contract where the CEO get $X million even if they run the company into the ground, the CEO that runs the company into the ground bears some responsibility too.

Why don't you become a consultant, then, and tell companies to hire the cheapest CEO they can get, and see how that works out for them?

Aiee! Jesus, downvoters, dissent from the party line isn't tolerated, is it?

Post reply on HN