Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#241

Post by rubberstamp » Sat, Jan 09, 2016, 1:09 AM UTC

rubberstamp wrote: post #240

First of all, this is not "free internet" they are trying to provide. Second point - if they were trying to genuinely provide a free internet service, nothing is stoping them from doing it without all the legalise TOS that surrounds it at the moment. Third point - Free 200MB or 500MB data per month for each person is the best way to do it(no video streaming/big files download), if "helping" was the actual intention.…

The poor also deserve privacy and actual internet instead of being snooped up on and fed by "internet for the poor".

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#242

Post by hackinthebochs » Sat, Jan 09, 2016, 7:01 AM UTC

mrow84 wrote: post #231

hackinthebochs wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly this. It is downright appalling every time I see someone from a place of privilege declare what's best for the unprivileged. All this vitriol against FreeBasics is exactly that. Until I see a mass of extremely poor indians with no internet access reject FreeBasics because they don't want facebook to have their "data", all this hate is just self-serving bluster in my eyes.

Do you think that there are no issues with information asymmetry between Facebook and the people who they are trying to co-opt into their programme? You appear to believe that the motivations of the Internet-literate about the consequences of Facebook's programme are more nefarious than the motivations of Facebook itself, which is contractually bound to operate in the interests of its shareholders.

Not nefarious, but rather misguided. Those speaking out against freebasics are judging it based on their own value system, which is going to be entirely different than the people such a program is targeting. And so the conclusions they draw are not valid for the people they are project them on to.

I don't think any transaction with information asymmetry is inherently exploitative. But more generally, I think the concern about who is doing what with your "data" is the concern of the relatively privileged. No one is going to be concerned about behavioral profiling when they're concerned about where their next meal is coming from. These people are concerned with the latter, while the activists are valuing the former which has little to no value to someone in the latter condition (their condition may not be that bad, but its a poignant example).

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#243

Post by abhaga » Tue, Jan 12, 2016, 4:13 AM UTC

hackinthebochs wrote: post #147

abhaga wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You speak as if those not on the internet can not already joining it in hordes. And those opposed to FreeBasics are somehow holding the keys. When looking at the two camps here, you seriously believe the motives of Facebook and Telecom companies that have clear business interest in having users locked up in their walled gardens but doubt the intentions of a motley group of activists including startup founders, univer…

>can not already joining it in hordes. Sorry, I can't figure out what you meant here. >you seriously believe the motives of Facebook and Telecom companies that have clear business interest I'm absolutely 100% convinced FB is doing this to be in on the ground floor of the explosion of internet access in India. And I don't see that as a bad thing. AOL happened, and it helped get a lot of people online earlier than they…

>> can not already joining it in hordes. > Sorry, I can't figure out what you meant here.

Yes, typos are hard to process, especially when you have context. I meant "are not already joining."

Are you defining privileged as those people who do not agree with you? Because in economic, social and other terms, I fail to see how those supporting FreeBasics are any less privileged. In fact, they are the top of the privilege pyramid.

And here's the thing. All these bleeding heart pro-poor telcos in fact want differential pricing so that they can charge more for VoIP services. How does that tie-in with this narrative of poor people?

Replace FreeBasics by a targeted scheme with measurable outcomes and provisions for how it will auto dismantle as it achieves its goals, and then let's talk. Otherwise it is all baloney.