Live data from Hacker News

Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smartphones

techcrunch.com

241–250 of 331 posts

Re: Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smartphones

#241

Guess it's up to Canonical to make Ubuntu Touch a viable open source smartphone OS - are there even devices running it that are being sold in the U.S.? Did not expect that Sailfish OS would outlive Firefox OS.

Tizen (https://www.tizen.org/) is open source and is keeping up.

Re: Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smartphones

#242
FFxOS kernel is a fork of android kernal, but optimized to run on small memory footprint (128 MB RAM). Its speed on 128 MB RAM devices is commendable. Javascript is the only and primary development language for FFxOS & we get to access all hardware devices (Bluetooth, wifi, camera, etc ) via Javascript.

Re: Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smartphones

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure people do still care about privacy. It just might not be readily obvious how to profit from such people.

It's obvious: you sell them the tools that enhance their privacy with solid reviews and advertisements in right places. If people don't buy, they either didn't care enough about privacy or were poor. There's security companies selling hardened phone OS's, browsers, desktops... you name it. Most individuals or businesses, even with the money, just don't buy them or even research them much.

all of these take terrible trade offs. people want a good product AND privacy AND security. Not fucking OR.

OR will NEVER win. A secure and/or private thing that you can't use simply CANNOT win vs something that actually works. If it doesn't work well being secure or anything missing the point why people even get the tool.

Sadly many companies totally miss that and think they'll get lucky. That's sort of sad.

Re: Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smartphones

#245
post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's obvious: you sell them the tools that enhance their privacy with solid reviews and advertisements in right places. If people don't buy, they either didn't care enough about privacy or were poor. There's security companies selling hardened phone OS's, browsers, desktops... you name it. Most individuals or businesses, even with the money, just don't buy them or even research them much.

all of these take terrible trade offs. people want a good product AND privacy AND security. Not fucking OR. OR will NEVER win. A secure and/or private thing that you can't use simply CANNOT win vs something that actually works. If it doesn't work well being secure or anything missing the point why people even get the tool. Sadly many companies totally miss that and think they'll get lucky. That's sort of sad.

"people want a good product AND privacy AND security. Not fucking OR."

That's true. The problem is: what is a good product? Good is relative to what the insecure garbage on the market is offering. You can move fast, drastically add complexity, keep it extra cheap, and so on if quality or security aren't on the table. So, a good product that meets one's needs can look like a bad one if it's secure and makes right tradeoffs vs the "good product" that sells its users out.

One simple example is how several companies did high assurance VPN's whose trusted computing base was very difficult to hack. Yet, to get there, they had to eliminate most features competition was adding to their all-in-one appliances. I pointed out one could just chain them together with the high assurance solution being the interface to untrusted network. Rest of functionality can be in next device. Even such a simple scenario was almost always rejected as it was cheaper or simpler to have one do-it-all(-like-crap) device.

Apply such logic throughout entire industry and we have whole, insecure stacks that can't be made better without sacrifice. Nonetheless, companies keep trying with medium-assurance, full-featured appliances that are easy to configure. They sell very few and most go out of business. Enough said.

Re: Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smartphones

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's my impression as well. A friend and I created a pastebin as a fun weekend project this weekend ( https://www.pastery.net/ ) and we used Persona for auth, since it's so damn convenient. The only problem is that it loads a bunch of files on every request, and my questions about lazy-loading went unanswered. I really wish Mozilla would change their mind and start developing this again. It feels like they expected…

Incidentally, I launched a pastebin ( https://ghostbin.com/ ) some time ago, used Persona for authentication, and absolutely loved it. Pastery looks awesome. It appears that you're using Pygments server-side?

Serious question for you and your parent:

Why would a pastebin site need auth/login/userids ?

All I can think of is editing pastes, but isn't it easier to just create a new (anonymous) paste instead of editing ?

Re: Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smartphones

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they're saying that even if Mozilla may not decide to actively develop Persona anymore, Persona users and fans would be able to contribute to and further develop the project if the repo is "open and available."

That's not happening, unfortunately. Sometimes you need someone with weight to throw around, or with technical knowledge, or both.

I agree sometimes it takes someone with weight to throw around, but are you saying that person needs to be a Mozilla employee? Because I wouldn't agree with that.

Re: Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smartphones

#248
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And yes, I realize that users don't care about privacy. But nobody cared about web standards, either: it's all about packaging. That's Mozilla's strength. The difference with browsers was that improvements in the browser led to clear improvements in web browsing experience, which even the least technically minded could notice. What changes in privacy and identity are Mozilla going to pioneer that result in obvious…

The clearest and simplest thing they could do is implement ad blocking in an ethical manner. All the other players have commercial agendas either for or against advertising. Mozilla is really the only player that can come to the table with clean hands and implement a solution that is fair to all sides.

Why would the user care about "ethical" manner (especially since it still allows ads) over crude, remove all ads, manner?

Re: Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smartphones

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's obvious: you sell them the tools that enhance their privacy with solid reviews and advertisements in right places. If people don't buy, they either didn't care enough about privacy or were poor. There's security companies selling hardened phone OS's, browsers, desktops... you name it. Most individuals or businesses, even with the money, just don't buy them or even research them much.

I bet they just don't deliver on their promise or do so at the expense of some fundamental use case. Security and privacy are very hard issues to address. So any solution will be temporary, very restrictive or fall short of it's promise. For instance you can't have total privacy even if you never use Google and use tracker blockers, erase your browser's fingerprint etc. you are still sharing information with servers…

Many server appliances or hardened distros did exactly what their counterparts could but with much less risk. Either went nowhere or made small amounts of money. Meanwhile, insecure garbage and spyware prevails at multi-billion dollar amounts. I think people have made their preferences clear in practice even if in theory they want it more private.

Re: Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smartphones

#250
post #83

Two days ago when Mozilla discontinues Thunderbird, people cheering "oh yeah, finally they can focus on firefoxOS", the same people are yelling Mozilla should focus on their mission (the browser)? Not to mention rust, it's adoption is nowhere comparable to Java, see what happened to Sun, I would boldly say Mozilla's mission has completed.

> Not to mention rust, it's adoption is nowhere comparable to Java By that metric, no language produced in the past 10 years has been a success.

By that metric, and considering absolute numbers, there's a good chance that no other language ever produced has been a success. :P
Post reply on HN