Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 497 posts

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#241

Post by scrollaway »

CountSessine wrote: post #127
grp wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please, wars of religions are from the 16th century [1]. In 2015, it's probably more linked with the foreign affairs and military operations. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Wars_of_Religion

Many of the cultures inundating Europe now are from the 16th century and earlier. Maybe if you stumble onto some of these terrorists in Paris now, you can inform them that their cause is just oh-so démodé? You can let us know how that works out.

This is an incredibly thoughtless and heartless thing to say. It doesn't even make sense.

Usually, I'd argue your point but.. today, I don't want to, my country was attacked and I feel horrible already. This is neither the time nor the place. It doesn't matter where they're from, I hope each and every one of those fuckers get caught, and I truly hope this is the last comment like this I'll see today. Unfortunately I know it won't be.

Keep this xenophobia to yourself.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#242

Post by toyg »

switch007 wrote: post #27
benevol wrote: post #7

Next thing you know, a new and even more totally total mass surveillance law is passed. (Obviously, attacks will continue to happen from time to time.)

The Snoopers Charter (Draft Communications Data Bill) is currently being pushed by the UK Government. The timing of Egypt and France is almost beyond belief. Opposition to it surely will fall off a cliff now.

But the opposite argument could be made: look, our British security apparatus is so good, that 1) other countries are being hit, despite "us" being much more involved in topical overt conflicts, and 2) "we" pretty much know right away who caused what (see response to the bombed Russian plane). Clearly they are working fine as they are and they don't need any more powers.

In fact, French and Russian security services are known for their heavy touch. Fat lot of good it's doing for them.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#243

Post by dragonwriter »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #179
yourepowerless wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you referring to the western powers which have killed millions of Muslims this last decade?

Western powers? Not so much. "Al-Qaida Kills Eight Times More Muslims Than Non-Muslims" http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/surprising-study-o... "ISIS’s Gruesome Muslim Death Toll: The group’s killing of Westerners gets attention. But ISIS has killed far more Muslims, and publicizing that fact would harm it more." http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/10/07/isis-s-grue... "Well, if spilling Muslim blood i…

> In fact, a report released in 2009 by the Combating Terrorism Center at West Point documented the people killed by al Qaeda between 2004 and 2008. It found that only 12% of the victims of al Qaeda were Westerners. That suggests that al Qaeda has killed seven times as many Muslims as non-Muslims.

Well, if you assume that all Westerners are non-Muslims and all non-Westerners are Muslims, it suggests that.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#244

Post by openfuture »

jacquesm wrote: post #96
toomuchtodo wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my years and travels, I've settled on the fact that the only solution to those "assholes" that destroy community fabric is overwhelming force. You cannot reason with someone who has nothing to lose.

Which suggests an alternative (partial) solution: make sure that people in general have lots to lose especially those on the fringes of society.

Making sure everyone has something to lose means making sure everyone has fulfilling lifes they'd rather not jepordize with hostility.

The us and them mentality being used to "combat" terrorism is so harmful because it puts people in a position where they have nothing to lose - they're already being discrimminated against etc.

I agree that a few assholes can ruin things for everyone but the reason they can is because they can ruin the trust people have in each other thereby leading to a situation like I described above. The solution is therefore counterintuitive (since they exploit intuition).

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#245

Post by saeranv »

rtz12 wrote: post #166

Gee, I wonder when they will finally tell us that the ones responsible are in fact, islamic terrorists. Mark my words HN, this is just the beginning. I wonder when things like this will happen in other European countries. Germany is a likely candidate, as we are currently mass-importing the potential terrorist candidates. And now, I'll just wait for the downvotes I guess.

To call families fleeing war "potential terrorist candidates"...

Can you see how this is an extremely broad, lazy generalization? What really supports this comparison, other than their religion and colour of their skin?

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#247

Post by jacquesm »

arcticfox wrote: post #205
jacquesm wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The primary cause of these incidents seems to be radicalization of segments of society with 'nothing to lose'. The societal problems involved in the creation of such segments and what can be done about them is a large and complex issue in which some technology will for sure be useful but which is first and foremost a people problem. The seeds for these issues were sown many years ago (and in quite a few cases with th…

Technology is a strong force multiplier for whatever potential "solutions" are, whether a person believes them to be increased surveillance, more open political processes, more cultural mingling etc. Simply discounting the power of technology is short-sighted.

Applying a screwdriver to a nail is the wrong tool for the problem, even tough that tool has excellent properties in many other contexts. Technology is not some kind of magic wand that you can point at every problem and make it smaller or disappear, in fact, for some problems technology is so wrong that it makes the problems worse rather than better. I'm not sold on technology having a positive role to play here but I'm open to specific suggestions (just like Ryan originally asked for) and if there are any that might work I will definitely support those, in spite of my skepticism about such solutions in general in the current context based on what technology has been able to achieve on this front to date.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#248

Post by oblio »

rtz12 wrote: post #220
yarper wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It already has happened in other european countries..

Terrorist attacks of this scale? Care to elaborate? I may have missed something here.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Madrid_train_bombings

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombings

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#249

Post by cnp »

pyrrhotech wrote: post #212
Houshalter wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only because people let it. There is little danger form actual terrorism, but there is massive danger from people's reactions to terrorism.

I think you'd feel differently if you had a loved one in the towers on 9/11

In times of tragedy it is especially important to think rationally. This does not demean ones loss, but prevents further loss from occurring.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#250

Post by makomk »

Gatsky wrote: post #9

A disaster. Obviously don't know yet who is responsible, but I don't understand why France is being targeted in this way. They are hardly terrorist enemy number one.

France started bombing Syria a month or two ago:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34372892

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-09/french-def...

Post reply on HN