Seattle, in Midst of Tech Boom, Tries to Keep Its Soul • Hacker News Board

Re: Seattle, in Midst of Tech Boom, Tries to Keep Its Soul

#241

Post by rconti » Fri, Oct 09, 2015, 12:52 AM UTC

malandrew wrote: post #229

Yay, yet another city trying out the horribly naive and misguided "Below Market Rate" housing model that only serves to distort the local housing economy further. I had a front row seat to experience the process because someone I date got into a BMR house about 1.5 years ago. For those that don't know, BMR housing programs usually work like this: - In order to build a new building, the builder must agree to allocate…

It's a huge game of economic whack-a-mole, where "solving" problems here just causes them to pop up in another place. It is very, very difficult to work around the basic laws of supply and demand, and arbitrarily picking winners and losers is hardly a fair way of allocating anything.

Nice to see a comment from someone who's seen it up close.

Re: Seattle, in Midst of Tech Boom, Tries to Keep Its Soul

#242

Post by webwright » Fri, Oct 09, 2015, 12:55 AM UTC

wfo wrote: post #53

mattress wrote: post #9

Took a job in Bellevue in April and moved from Philadelphia to Seattle. So far it's a been an interesting experience. I've encountered many people hostile to software engineers in general. A bunch of people immediately ask if I work for Amazon with a hint of disdain after I state my occupation. So it hasn't felt super welcoming so far. I get it, even in some neighborhoods in Philadelphia the same thing is happening.…

Seattle has never been particularly welcoming to newcomers; people there tend to be insular and it can be hard to make friends if you don't already know people (even before the amazon/tech stuff -- plenty of articles about 'the seattle freeze' that predate it). Being from there helps. Not being in tech helps -- there are so many new software engineers meeting one just isn't very interesting. You can hardly blame peop…

This is so strange to hear. I moved here in 2006 and made friends without any unusual effort. The idea that someone is going to be non-interested in talking to you because of your profession is... strange.

No one here that I've ever met hates Amazon (though some are bummed by the economic effect on the city). I've never worked there, but I have friends who have-- some of them didn't like it (and left), others really love it. Like any big company, depends on your team and your boss.

Re: Seattle, in Midst of Tech Boom, Tries to Keep Its Soul

#243

Post by redwood » Fri, Oct 09, 2015, 12:55 AM UTC

capkutay wrote: post #123

The west coast has a liberal population less receptive to change than Bush/Cheney era Republicans. SF has a lot of misguided anger towards tech workers.

The gender imbalance is a bummer got almost everyone

Re: Seattle, in Midst of Tech Boom, Tries to Keep Its Soul

#244

Post by JesperRavn » Fri, Oct 09, 2015, 12:57 AM UTC

civilian wrote: post #232

pazrul wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This guy is a terrible hypocrite; he creates art bemoaning new people in his neighborhood, while being a recent transplant from New York himself. He's cashing in on the worst kind of 'us vs them' mentality. Some people make excuses that he's only rallying against the stereotypical brogrammer, but I don't think that's true. He's really against anyone being in his neighborhood he didn't personally approve of. He's the…

Agreed. For more info, looks at the video here: http://www.thestranger.com/blogs/slog/2015/08/26/22761976/at... an engineer confronts him in a Q&A session about his bias towards engineers. John just blows up. He accuses techies of being quiet &boring, while at the same time accusing them of being the people who are bashing trans people. He's very inconsistent and is just good at being loud. Oh, and he's also a transp…

In my high school they didn't know the word "techie" so they had a different word for kids they considered quite and boring. Ironically it was the same word they used to describe people like John.

Re: Seattle, in Midst of Tech Boom, Tries to Keep Its Soul

#245

Post by sbilstein » Fri, Oct 09, 2015, 1:01 AM UTC

wfo wrote: post #53

mattress wrote: post #9

Took a job in Bellevue in April and moved from Philadelphia to Seattle. So far it's a been an interesting experience. I've encountered many people hostile to software engineers in general. A bunch of people immediately ask if I work for Amazon with a hint of disdain after I state my occupation. So it hasn't felt super welcoming so far. I get it, even in some neighborhoods in Philadelphia the same thing is happening.…

Seattle has never been particularly welcoming to newcomers; people there tend to be insular and it can be hard to make friends if you don't already know people (even before the amazon/tech stuff -- plenty of articles about 'the seattle freeze' that predate it). Being from there helps. Not being in tech helps -- there are so many new software engineers meeting one just isn't very interesting. You can hardly blame peop…

I moved to Seattle in 2011 and left in 2013. It was a little difficult to make friends at first because (1) people are generally standoffish and (2) the whole 'I work at Microsoft' thing really turns people off for whatever reason.

What I learned after a while was you can't really do anything about #1; thats just the NW culture. To deal with #2...just don't bring it up and don't be a stereotype and get to know Seattle and all it's good for. Music, mountains, etc. I loved living there the second year I was there.

I find the Bay Area is so inundated with tech it's almost impossible to encounter #1 or #2...almost anyone you meet socially if you live in SF will work for tech in some way or another which was not guaranteed at all in Seattle (also true of Oakland but not quite the same). People are friendlier in the Bay but that's got no bearing on you actually being friends with them.

Re: Seattle, in Midst of Tech Boom, Tries to Keep Its Soul

#246

Post by JesperRavn » Fri, Oct 09, 2015, 1:02 AM UTC

eastbayjake wrote: post #152

mosdave wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and avoiding talking about work entirely fuck, is this not SOP for everyone? conversation order of operations: work < people < things < ideas

The #1 dating horror story among women I've dated in SF is the introverted engineer who could only talk about work, engineering, or video games and otherwise required Charlie Rose levels of questioning to engage on other topics. I'm wondering if I can get funding for a Personality-as-a-Service startup in SF.

Yet another way that privileged White males from the tech industry oppress women.

Re: Seattle, in Midst of Tech Boom, Tries to Keep Its Soul

#247

Post by ceras » Fri, Oct 09, 2015, 1:08 AM UTC

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #31

peatmoss wrote: post #14

I've only lived in Seattle for about 6 years, but have seen / felt a rise in rents over that time. When we moved here, lots of rentals were offering one or two months free rent as a move in special. Now, not so much. Because he was sick of friends moving away, a friend of mine made his rookie run for the city council this past year. He didn't survive the primary, but he had some good ideas about housing that have in…

This is a severely under-appreciated point about housing costs. I live in a college town and rents have been climbing to the degree where the ratio of income to housing expenses is the highest in the nation, leaving New York and San Francisco in the dust. Every once in a while there will be more proposals to build condos over existing houses or apartments. We've been here before: housing stock is considerably increas…

> Building housing in a bull market is almost always the right choice, but let's not pretend rents are going to magically fall. Or stop rising. Housing is one of the most elastic goods one can find. Everyone has to sleep somewhere.

It doesn't matter if it's inelastic if demand can meet supply. The econ 101 example is diamonds (expensive but useless) vs. water (dirt cheap but necessary): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_value

If the theory's not enough for you, I don't have it on hand but there's empirical research that shows this relationship holds for housing like it does for any other good.

Re: Seattle, in Midst of Tech Boom, Tries to Keep Its Soul

#248

Post by malandrew » Fri, Oct 09, 2015, 1:09 AM UTC

rconti wrote: post #241

malandrew wrote: post #229

Yay, yet another city trying out the horribly naive and misguided "Below Market Rate" housing model that only serves to distort the local housing economy further. I had a front row seat to experience the process because someone I date got into a BMR house about 1.5 years ago. For those that don't know, BMR housing programs usually work like this: - In order to build a new building, the builder must agree to allocate…

It's a huge game of economic whack-a-mole, where "solving" problems here just causes them to pop up in another place. It is very, very difficult to work around the basic laws of supply and demand, and arbitrarily picking winners and losers is hardly a fair way of allocating anything. Nice to see a comment from someone who's seen it up close.

The sad part is that I clicked the link to the Seattle proposal and they are repeating the same mistakes as San Francisco.

Re: Seattle, in Midst of Tech Boom, Tries to Keep Its Soul

#249

Post by jskonhovd » Fri, Oct 09, 2015, 1:11 AM UTC

cossatot wrote: post #144

mattress wrote: post #9

Took a job in Bellevue in April and moved from Philadelphia to Seattle. So far it's a been an interesting experience. I've encountered many people hostile to software engineers in general. A bunch of people immediately ask if I work for Amazon with a hint of disdain after I state my occupation. So it hasn't felt super welcoming so far. I get it, even in some neighborhoods in Philadelphia the same thing is happening.…

I moved here a year ago and have found it to be extremely welcoming. But I'm in science, not tech qua tech. I have made most of my new friends through outdoors, particularly whitewater kayaking. The whitewater community here is vibrant and much preferable to other whitewater hotspots because there are few lifestyle/dudebro boaters and lots of people have interesting jobs or other hobbies and are smart and conversant.…

I don't think it's far to compare any city to New Orleans. I think everyone from the South is a little bit jealous of the culture of New Orleans. It's just a amazing place.

Re: Seattle, in Midst of Tech Boom, Tries to Keep Its Soul

#250

Post by ceras » Fri, Oct 09, 2015, 1:16 AM UTC

mahyarm wrote: post #210

peatmoss wrote: post #14

I've only lived in Seattle for about 6 years, but have seen / felt a rise in rents over that time. When we moved here, lots of rentals were offering one or two months free rent as a move in special. Now, not so much. Because he was sick of friends moving away, a friend of mine made his rookie run for the city council this past year. He didn't survive the primary, but he had some good ideas about housing that have in…

The fact there are height limits in the first place are part of the problem. Height limits should be removed, and height minimums should be put in place. SF is giving pathetic 2 floor height limit increases in exchange for a larger amount of BMR units when new development should be multifamily only development with a minimum of 10 floors.

I agree the height restrictions should be more generous, but we shouldn't go to the other extreme. A minimum isn't necessary: property developers will build as much as they think will turn any profit whatsoever. You don't need to force them to try to make money -- just get out of there way!

There's also a downside to minimums: 10-story buildings aren't very cheap to build (unlike 5-story buildings), causing problems if you want new housing stock to target the poor and working class. This makes it challenging to build on the urban fringe where 3-story buildings should be replacing single family homes. 10-story buildings have no business out there, unless maybe you're building next to a transit hub.

You can try to define the "core" part of the city that needs 10-story buildings, but this is more micromanaging than you need to be, and the law will need to keep up with a changing urban landscape. As we've seen in SF and many other US cities, that's a tall order.