Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan • Hacker News Board

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#241

Post by DrPizza » Tue, Sep 22, 2015, 3:15 PM UTC

exstudent2 wrote: post #238

DrPizza wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As for Quinn, no on here is talking about her or harassment other than the anti-GGers. I've been talking about Kotaku. You brought up Kotaku in response to this post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10253942 The context is very specifically Zoe Quinn. > In response to ethical breaches in your articles (opposed to your activism which I've broken down already), What "activism" have you "broken down"? > I'd say a…

> You do understand, right, that your standards and expectations for disclosure have nothing to do with any recognized standard for journalistic ethics, right? Pulitzer disagrees with you. From http://pulitzercenter.org/about-us/ethics-and-standards-poli... CONFLICTS OF INTEREST Normal activities - outside work, investments, political activism - pose special problems for journalists. Often, it's best to avoid activit…

> Pulitzer disagrees with you.

No they don't.

> Full disclosure of relevant information is standard practice for the Pulitzer Center

Wake me when political or economic writers disclose which candidates and politicians they know and voted for, or when film writers disclose the names of all the PR people who they talk to, or any of the other relationships that aren't routinely disclosed because they're not material. "relevant information" does not mean "anything and everything".

I repeat: your standards and expectations for disclosure have nothing to do with any recognized standard for journalistic ethics.

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#242

Post by astrodust » Tue, Sep 22, 2015, 4:09 PM UTC

chisleu wrote: post #208

astrodust wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4chan has an extremely non-SJW tilt. I wouldn't be surprised if the SJW term itself originated there as a pejorative. The site's founder, moot, had to cut all ties with the site as it turned into an angry mob. It's no longer a fun and happy place, there's an undercurrent of hate, fear, and misogyny.

To an extent, yes. However that doesn't change the fact that some of the mods are backing SJW causes, and banning because of it. They blew off gamergate because of all their noisy crap, in spite of the important things they were pushing for. /r/kotakuinaction has much of this information in the "best" post listing.

The whole property is poisoned. The mods are incapable of keeping a lid on the problem.

This is the same phenomenon that played out at Reddit where the leadership was hesitant to try and interfere with so-called free-speech issues, and would then wildly over-react when things came to a head.

The problem is that 4chan's tone has turned from "social justice", those incidents early in its history where people were genuinely trying to help others as internet vigilantes, to those that started antagonizing people, and later, to viciously harassing them.

A lot of people who wanted no part of that have left. This skews the community heavily towards those who don't leave, who enjoy that sort of thing.

I'm not saying all participants in 4chan are guilty, but the nature of that entity, as a whole, is the polar opposite of SJW.

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#243

Post by icebraining » Tue, Sep 22, 2015, 4:25 PM UTC

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #233

icebraining wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are some behaviors you would excuse from one but not the other? Essential, I apply the right of self-defense to a group much like it does to individuals. The justified intensity of the action is relative to the injury being fought against (up to and including "shooting back"). The ethics of gaming journalism certainly don't deserve more than dispassionate criticism and factual accusations of impropriety.

Self defense is only justified reactively against an immediate threat. Seeking out and attacking someone is never justified as self defense. We are talking about the actions of a movement... deliberate chosen actions. What deliberate chosen actions, not made in reaction to an immediate threat, is justified if the one doing it says it is for the cause of civil rights?

That's the letter of the law, but Sheehan was acquitted by people who have a closer perspective to mine: if the threat is reinforced by past abuses/attacks and there's no expected relief from the authorities, even something deliberate can be self-defence. This can be true for a person, and for a group.

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#244

Post by Uhhrrr » Tue, Sep 22, 2015, 7:08 PM UTC

DrPizza wrote: post #214

exstudent2 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's Kotaku EIC Stephen Totilo admitting to Kotaku's ethical failures re: GamerGate. https://archive.is/4Tp9N#selection-7679.0-7679.603 He's downplaying it but the failures to disclose personal ties DID exist in many cases. He also references other ethical failings from Kotaku. None of this would have come to light without GamerGate. They regularly make references to pre-existing relationships now. Note that this i…

> None of this would have come to light without GamerGate. Including the stuff in his comment that happened before GamerGate and was widely known about and reported on before GamerGate? "None of this" indeed. Oh, and Totilo doesn't describe any kind of compromising relationship between Quinn and any of his writers, which merely underscores the fundamentally dishonest basis of the entire "movement". "ethics in games j…

You should write about all the problems with major game publishers and name names. It would be a great article! However, considering how most game sites circled the wagons for the case of Nathan Grayson and an unknown indie dev, I don't have high hopes.

Also, saying there was no conflict of interest between Grayson and Quinn is bunk. He had hung out with her, flirted online, planned a trip to Vegas with her, and been thanked in the credits of Quinn's game. A journalist outside of the games industry would have let someone else cover the Game Jam, given that level of involvement.

Quinn should be blameless in this - there's no handbook of ethics for indie devs - but Stephen Totilo absolutely shouldn't.

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#245

Post by comrh » Tue, Sep 22, 2015, 8:24 PM UTC

DrPizza wrote: post #241

exstudent2 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You do understand, right, that your standards and expectations for disclosure have nothing to do with any recognized standard for journalistic ethics, right? Pulitzer disagrees with you. From http://pulitzercenter.org/about-us/ethics-and-standards-poli... CONFLICTS OF INTEREST Normal activities - outside work, investments, political activism - pose special problems for journalists. Often, it's best to avoid activit…

> Pulitzer disagrees with you. No they don't. > Full disclosure of relevant information is standard practice for the Pulitzer Center Wake me when political or economic writers disclose which candidates and politicians they know and voted for, or when film writers disclose the names of all the PR people who they talk to, or any of the other relationships that aren't routinely disclosed because they're not material. "r…

Just FYI I noticed this is now linked on /r/Kotakuinaction so expect an incoming dog pile.

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#246

Post by DrPizza » Tue, Sep 22, 2015, 8:52 PM UTC

Uhhrrr wrote: post #244

DrPizza wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> None of this would have come to light without GamerGate. Including the stuff in his comment that happened before GamerGate and was widely known about and reported on before GamerGate? "None of this" indeed. Oh, and Totilo doesn't describe any kind of compromising relationship between Quinn and any of his writers, which merely underscores the fundamentally dishonest basis of the entire "movement". "ethics in games j…

You should write about all the problems with major game publishers and name names. It would be a great article! However, considering how most game sites circled the wagons for the case of Nathan Grayson and an unknown indie dev, I don't have high hopes. Also, saying there was no conflict of interest between Grayson and Quinn is bunk. He had hung out with her, flirted online, planned a trip to Vegas with her, and been…

> You should write about all the problems with major game publishers and name names.

People have written bits and pieces on this before

Nobody really cares.

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#247

Post by EdiX » Wed, Sep 23, 2015, 9:20 AM UTC

comrh wrote: post #199

Karunamon wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by "dogpiled", you mean "having your public communication using a hashtag responded to in public by lots of people". Volume of replies does not harassment make. > If you criticise them, you will receive rape and death threats. This is frequently claimed but there's little evidence of it.

This whole thread is just a great example of this comic: http://wondermark.com/1k62/

    :%s/sealion/black people/

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#248

Post by Koahku » Wed, Sep 23, 2015, 9:59 AM UTC

Nadya wrote: post #97

VLM wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a practical example, /out/ and /diy/ are two of the only places on the internet where you can get useful information about gear. Everything else is tainted by ad money. When the competition is 99% pimping and astroturfing for advertisers, being 10% useful and only 90% noise makes /out/ about ten times as information dense as any other place on the internet. This is why people who don't read or agree with /pol/ non…

>As a practical example, /out/ and /diy/ are two of the only places on the internet where you can get useful information about gear. Everything else is tainted by ad money. Maybe /g/ is just more aware of the shills? I have a picture where one of the Windows Nokia phones had like 200+ threads made within a week all with the same image and very similar OP. There's a lot of shills and unfortunately it can take some eff…

>I also made a short (and now defunct, though I can rehost it) web-based puzzle for people on /g/ to learn a bit about encryption. Starting with a simple ROT13 and working up to audio stenography.

Durrcada? If so, I found it very fun even though my attention span is too short for that sort of things.

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#249

Post by Nadya » Wed, Sep 23, 2015, 4:00 PM UTC

Koahku wrote: post #248

Nadya wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As a practical example, /out/ and /diy/ are two of the only places on the internet where you can get useful information about gear. Everything else is tainted by ad money. Maybe /g/ is just more aware of the shills? I have a picture where one of the Windows Nokia phones had like 200+ threads made within a week all with the same image and very similar OP. There's a lot of shills and unfortunately it can take some eff…

>I also made a short (and now defunct, though I can rehost it) web-based puzzle for people on /g/ to learn a bit about encryption. Starting with a simple ROT13 and working up to audio stenography. Durrcada? If so, I found it very fun even though my attention span is too short for that sort of things.

Lain. It was a few years ago and only 6-7 steps long because I hit the threshold for my expertise (read: next to none) at the time.

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#250

Post by Uhhrrr » Wed, Sep 23, 2015, 5:38 PM UTC

DrPizza wrote: post #246

Uhhrrr wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should write about all the problems with major game publishers and name names. It would be a great article! However, considering how most game sites circled the wagons for the case of Nathan Grayson and an unknown indie dev, I don't have high hopes. Also, saying there was no conflict of interest between Grayson and Quinn is bunk. He had hung out with her, flirted online, planned a trip to Vegas with her, and been…

> You should write about all the problems with major game publishers and name names. People have written bits and pieces on this before Nobody really cares.

Here's a Reddit post about Polygon's Samit Sarkar which got 500 upvotes: https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/3jq1xm/goal...

Here's a post about EA giving early access to Reddit mods, who didn't disclose it. 2000 upvotes: https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/3c8wze/ethi...

There's definitely a constituency among gamers.