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HP to cut 25-30k jobs

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Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#241

Post by meatysnapper »

iheartmemcache wrote: post #68
joshmn wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, I'll be sure to echo this to him.

Those contacts are worth a ridiculous amount of money. Niche consulting for the enterprise can yield literally millions of dollars/a year in support for a client like UPS. An Alpha setup.. I'm guessing OpenVMS? Mission critical to their business. Whatever support contract they're paying HP, he can join any big-name tech consulting firm, play golf with the CIO or purchasing authority in charge of maintenance/support a…

Word. Your dad needs to gather up all his contacts, put them in a spreadsheet and figure out who he's got. Then, figure out which of his customers will get screwed in this. Then, collect his team. Then, figure out the noncompete. It's very doable, but very scary.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#242

Post by dragonwriter »

dovereconomics wrote: post #239
dragonwriter wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst, unchecked, crony cap Papuan is exactly the system for which the name "capitalism" was coined, and crony capitalism had been part of what the term had referred to -- and an element of all real-world systems with the name -- since the real-world nineteenth century system that features it was named "capitalism" by its critics. Cronyism is central to capitalism, and you can't have one without the other.

Cronyism, referring to a system where incompetent agents are given special favors, doesn't survive in the free market - merciless competition destroys any underperfoming organization. Cronyism only exists when competition doesn't work by means of a government. Get some politicians, create regulations, build a monopoly. No matter how uncompetitive it is, you're still a billionaire.

> Cronyism, referring to a system where incompetent agents are given special favors, doesn't survive in the free market

The "free market" in which that is a defensible claim is a counterfactual construct that is sometimes useful as a simplified analytic model, but fundamentally incompatible with the behavior of real human beings and conditions in the real world.

> merciless competition destroys any underperfoming organization.

In real unregulated markets, that may happen initially, and the most successful parties in that situation mercilessly move to lock-in advantages against future competitors by use their economic power they have as a result of that success to monopolize key inputs, preventing competition.

> Cronyism only exists when competition doesn't work by means of a government

Yes, and a particular, common, real-world version of cronyism by which government structures the economic regime to favor the interest of the capital-holding class was identified by its critics in the 19th Century, and given the name "capitalism".

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#243

Post by rqebmm »

FilterSweep wrote: post #205
mahyarm wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You work remotely, life is pretty low stress. Live in a cheap cost of living place, take care of the kids while the spouse is out working on their other job. Never get a raise in 6 years. That is why they phone it in.

I find it hard to believe a matured company, rife with middle management, wouldn't have held those people "mailing it in," so to speak, accountable years ago . Whether they work onsite or remotely, some work is turned in. A handful may fall through the cracks, but it's just that, a handful. Not 30,000, even in a company much bigger.

what if the middle managers are phoning it in?

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#244

Post by Apocryphon »

Grue3 wrote: post #153
emp_zealoth wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. Rant incoming. Im just aghast how shitty your country is. I can understand living in fear of mortgages and the like, jak with at will nonsense and the like ( gags ) But your employer having a gun to your beloved's head - that what it basically is - is just rotten. I genuinely wish that any libertarians here (in Poland) move to USA or, Friedmans beloved, Chile. I hope they get to experience shit like that. I gues…

Those "libertarians" as you call them are the reason why you're not living in communist shithole and it's clear from your post that you're too young to truly appreciate the advantages of free market.

Actually, Catholics and trade unionists are the reason why Poland is no longer communist.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#245

Post by Apocryphon »

dovereconomics wrote: post #237
stefantalpalaru wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Crony capitalism still is not capitalism. This reminds me of some people who pointed out that communism was never implemented and all the totalitarian regimes were still in the socialism phase. A phase which was obviously never going to be replaced with the communist utopia. This is just a delay tactic. We all know what we talk about when we say "communism" and it's the same for "capitalism" - we mean the real-worl…

Not really. Anyone with a background on classical economics realizes the U.S is much closer to socialism than capitalism. The existence of 'prices' and greed doesn't imply it's capitalism.

So neoliberalism is socialism?

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#246

Post by mikekij »

joshmn wrote: post #30
jfoutz wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your dad needs to think about the next best 5 guys, and how to pick them up for cheap when the layoffs happen. At his age striking out on his own will seem absolutely terrifying. Work on him for a few months. He must have built up some serious contacts over the years. His pitch is straightforward. HP can't actually support their products anymore, they don't have the staff. He knows the hardware inside and out. Sell s…

This sounds like a great idea, but I don't know if he's such an entrepreneur or risk-taker. Some people are, some people aren't. It's a natural thing. I'm not sure of the papers he's signed (non-competes...), or the contracts that HP has with their customers (there must be some), but... he could definitely "get the band together" and pull off such a feat. Again, I think this goes back to the contracts he had. He's on…

Most states are "right to work" states, which means that it is difficult (or impossible) for an employer to enforce a non-compete if they lay you off. Unless he signs something to the contrary while taking severance. It'd be worth the $150 half-hour lawyer fee to get an official legal opinion on this.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#247

Post by sbov »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #102
jfoutz wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your dad needs to think about the next best 5 guys, and how to pick them up for cheap when the layoffs happen. At his age striking out on his own will seem absolutely terrifying. Work on him for a few months. He must have built up some serious contacts over the years. His pitch is straightforward. HP can't actually support their products anymore, they don't have the staff. He knows the hardware inside and out. Sell s…

It bothers me when people suggest unrealistic possibilities to people being layed off like starting their own businesses. There's 10% unemployment. Is that really a legit solution? Capitalism is built on the idea of everyone 'working' and 'having a job' and theres lots of people like his dad who really want work, and are loyal and hardworking. But there's not enough jobs to go around and the amount keeps decreasing d…

> Capitalism is built on the idea of everyone 'working' and 'having a job'

Capitalism wouldn't work if everyone who wants a job has one, so I really doubt that. Employees could just demand ever increasing salaries until all profit is gobbled up, and there's nothing the business can do about it because they can't replace them since everyone who wants a job has one.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#248

Post by dragonwriter »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #102
jfoutz wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your dad needs to think about the next best 5 guys, and how to pick them up for cheap when the layoffs happen. At his age striking out on his own will seem absolutely terrifying. Work on him for a few months. He must have built up some serious contacts over the years. His pitch is straightforward. HP can't actually support their products anymore, they don't have the staff. He knows the hardware inside and out. Sell s…

It bothers me when people suggest unrealistic possibilities to people being layed off like starting their own businesses. There's 10% unemployment. Is that really a legit solution? Capitalism is built on the idea of everyone 'working' and 'having a job' and theres lots of people like his dad who really want work, and are loyal and hardworking. But there's not enough jobs to go around and the amount keeps decreasing d…

> Capitalism is built on the idea of everyone 'working' and 'having a job'

Capitalism is structured so that everyone without substantial capital holdings needs a job. OTOH, its not built on everyone working and having a job, in fact, the desperation that comes with people not having jobs and people currently working being at risk of not having jobs -- and the effect that has on the wages and conditions those employed are willing to accept -- is important to capitalism (though its one of the effects modern mixed economies have attempted to mitigate in moving away from pure capitalism.)

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#249

Post by pound »

crdoconnor wrote: post #114
dasil003 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The uncomfortable truth at this scale is that some employees are absolutely essential and some are just phoning it in collecting a paycheck. Ideally management would have visibility into where the performers were, but with this many layers of management it's very very difficult to see the forest for the trees. It's one thing to repurpose people when the trend lines are positive or at least flat, but in HP's case ther…

>The uncomfortable truth at this scale is that some employees are absolutely essential and some are just phoning it in collecting a paycheck. Ideally management would have visibility into where the performers were Even if they could, they have no real incentive to be truthful about it.

many time this^.

Management in big companies cares only about benefits coming with position. Product? Fuck it, as long as they have power and cookies.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#250

Post by ashwinaj »

To me it's kinda obvious that any "major event" i.e. merger, large acquisition, split, extremely bad quarter etc. in a big company is an excuse to let people go. IMO the only way to survive these "events" in a big company is to make sure you are indispensable (which is not a reflection of how smart you are) or be politically astute. Despite this there are no guarantees, you just have to keep your eyes and ears open to the on goings of your company.
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