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I quit the tech industry

eev.ee

231–240 of 565 posts

Re: I quit the tech industry

#231
post #186
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go to Georgia (Europe) - tax haven (0%) for software companies http://www.upsoni.com/blog/?preload=virtual_trade_zone.txt

Georgia is not quite Europe though ;-)

It is not in EU yet, but for some companies this might be even preferable ;)

I'd say, so far, Georgia is one of the most capitalist states in Europe.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#232

This is what burnout looks like. Unless Yelp has a toxic work culture, it's likely the author brought it on themselves by pushing too hard. After several months, the author will probably start thinking about work again, and begin the job search once more. Not to say that the author's points are invalid; it's a terrible feeling to have to spend your most productive hours working on someone else's problems. He or she m…

> it's likely the author brought it on themselves by pushing too hard. Don't fall into the trap of thinking this. It is the case some of the time, but not all of the time. When I first started working in tech in the mid-90s, it was only a year or two before I was considering going back to school in music or to get an MBA. Since about 2004, I've known that I would like to abandon the tech industry. It is now 2015. I h…

Man, I might be slightly depressed at the idea of going back to another job, but meds scare the fucking crap out of me.

I was trying to do a class a semester and work at the same time at a startup as a junior full stack engineer for something I truly couldn't care less about (advertising).

I think the key thing that's making me look forward to my next position is 1: I found a spot where I'll have an office thus eliminating much of the distractors that are present in these ridiculous open office layouts. Creative people are distracted very easily [0] and the open office layout was really destroying my love for being an engineer. It was very funny because when I'd come home I'd be exhausted, but if I sat and tried to do my homework I'd actually get more done when I was exhausted because there weren't 100 people walking around me.

2. The office has a window. I hated working in this cramped, open, shared space we had for a while. The closest window was probably 25 feet away in a small conference room. And there was nothing on the walls.

3. This new position that I haven't quite accepted yet gives me the opportunity to write one day a week to create entries for a technical blog and writing is something I'd like to do anyways so the opportunity to be able to contribute to the tech community in that manner is tremendous.

4. This is a recruiting firm so I'll actually hopefully get to see some people get hired because of the things I do! How neat to have a real world impact.

5. They do lots of charity events so I can always respect that. Lots of companies focus on the parties but parties are just a way to escape in a lot of ways, I think giving back will feel tremendous.

6. I'll be helping to work out what to do next with the CEO, this could potentially be stressful, but I really love the idea of having the opportunity to develop performance indicators, plan out entire systems, and build a team. This allows me to be more than just a cog in the machine or one man on a team, it allows me to feel like a real god damn fuckin engineer. A contributor. I have so many ideas all the time, why not be employed somewhere where I'm more than just feature X, maintenence Y, and feature Z ad nauseum?

That being said there are a few downsides such as not being able to have a close mentor. I am still relatively junior. This means I'll have to work a bit harder on my own in order to stay fresh and keep building my skills which means some homework time with Code Complete and other resources like that. I may ask for them to hire me a mentor every fortnight for half a day so that I may improve and to keep the quality of everything I do for them up to snuff.

So, while I'm a bit apprehensive about starting up again (thats a lot of weight on my shoulders!), I'm very excited to start at a place where I think I'll really be able to have an incredibly positive impact in the environment that I really feel will have the most positive impact on my performance and well being. If I'm easily distracted by people slurping sodas, why is it that most of the choices for offices for tech workers force me to accept that the only acceptable place for me to do incredibly complex engineering work is near people making jokes and slurping sodas?

I may have taken a small pay cut (although bonuses will hopefully make up and then some if I really shine) but for me to finally have the opportunity to do engineering work in an office, and to be a part of the decision making process, and to have duties beyond just feature A and feature B including nontechnical technical writing, that excites me.

So I guess my advice is, maybe instead of seeking meds (although therapy on its own I'm sure might be incredibly good (I've not been yet (although it wouldn't surprise me if I probably should have))), maybe do some introspection and figure out exactly what it is that is draining you day after day and then try to change those.

For me, I think, it was an inability to get into the zone at work, thus making me spend so much of my energy just on maintaining a decent level of focus. When I'm home, I don't need that and the time flies whenever I actually sit and do work. To get rid of that energy drain should be tremendous for me. Maybe you guys will see some tech articles by me in the future, I sure hope so ;-)

[0] - http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6831248

Re: I quit the tech industry

#233
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are 2 reasons: 1) Developers cannot reliably estimate software timelines. That often comes with experience and age, but many never learn that skill. It is a skill like programming itself. It comes with practice. 2) Break down in communication between management (product managers) and engineers who are writing code. On the first part. Usually junior software developers simply have not had experience shipping sof…

Your point about the overly aggressive golf-made deal: how do we fix that? I really don't have an answer, but if we, as developers, are really so smart, we should be able formulate the problem and find a solution. We will have to avoid imagined constraints and thinking the answer is related to producing more code, but it's got to be there. Is it related to playing the office politics game better? And if so, can that…

Company I work for tried to solve it using this rule -- don't hire any MBAs. Every manager, product manager, and even salesperson is (or at least was at some point) an engineer.

This works in our context (and has worked for many decades apparently). But I doubt this scales to a large size.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#234
post #181
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But those are not made up problems, those are necessities and cost only a minimal amount of time per day Minimal, LOL. What world do you live in? I suggest you pay a visit to Amish country some day and see how people unencumbered with "made up problems" live. Farming and other survival-related tasks are literally ALL they do. And it's all you would ever do without people sitting in offices and factories tending to…

No offense, but I disagree with pretty much all of this. We work more than our ancestors do, not to make an easier life, but for the sake of incorporating the ephemeral and inconsequential into our lives. And an agrarian lifestyle can be loads of fun, actually. I got more of a sense of accomplishment helping on my grandparents' farm than from any blue collar job I've ever held.

IMO the truth is somewhere in the middle. A lot of people tend to underestimate the extent and pervasiveness of 'make-work' in the economy. But then again there are lots of vital but rather onerous tasks that would never get done if there wasn't any financial incentive.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#235

In a way, this is a good argument for contracting, as long as you do it right. If you know useful stuff, people will always offer you a bag of money to help them out. It is extremely rare that you get the bag of money and you get to do exactly what your passion is. Heck, most of us just have some vague idea of what our passion is anyway. So it's always some sort of compromise. But with contracting, you should be look…

Working for a consulting company can also be a good middle ground. They provide a corporate support network for you, but you aren't tied to one kind of project for years. Most consulting projects are greenfield, too, because the other party doesn't usually want to give you their own hard-earned code, so maintenance hell isn't usually an issue.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#236
post #225

This is what burnout looks like. Unless Yelp has a toxic work culture, it's likely the author brought it on themselves by pushing too hard. After several months, the author will probably start thinking about work again, and begin the job search once more. Not to say that the author's points are invalid; it's a terrible feeling to have to spend your most productive hours working on someone else's problems. He or she m…

This is what burnout looks like. I agree. Boys and girls, as you likely know, burnout is real. But, you can manage it. I'll tell you what I do. Here's the secret: Put yourself first. Now, that sounds quite selfish on first-blush. What exactly does that mean? For me, it means I take care of my health, first and foremost. Before the day is started, before the family is awake, I head off to the gym to be with The Iron.…

Because I see you attend The Iron Temple, you must also be a worshipper of Brodin. Wheymen.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#237
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are 2 reasons: 1) Developers cannot reliably estimate software timelines. That often comes with experience and age, but many never learn that skill. It is a skill like programming itself. It comes with practice. 2) Break down in communication between management (product managers) and engineers who are writing code. On the first part. Usually junior software developers simply have not had experience shipping sof…

I've spent a lot of time thinking about why software projects go over budget so often. I think that developer estimation only plays a minor role, and the big problem is failure to manage project scope. I'm specifically talking about projects which go like this: 1) A set of high-level business requirements are put together, and given to a tech lead to estimate. 2) The tech lead's estimate, based on the requirements as…

I agree with you. I was mostly thinking of one iteration (a simplistic view) of "we know the scope, we go to work, we deliver (or fail) the result" which happens only in small projects.

The two types of scope creep is a good observation, I'll have to remember that idea.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#238
post #11

I have been working for myself for last 8 years after completing my masters, in hindsight financially I did not do too badly (tho there was some great and ups and incredible downs!) and it is NICE working from home and watching your kid grow (tho there are quite a lot of distractions!!! says he who is procrastinating reading HN :D ) BUT if I was offered a job with guaranteed employment and steady wages and (gaaasp pe…

Thanks to the Internet numbing my moral compass, it's not often I'm shocked, but 53% is just horrifying :(. On the other foot, I live in Australia where most can't afford to buy a house in Sydney, even with what would be considered pretty good wages. That's why I moved out of core tech and became a librarian (which is still pretty tech) in a more regional city. Lower wages but slightly more affordable houses mean I m…

In addition to the other responses, remember that US federal income tax is a graduated tax rate, so even at ~40% on 120k, you're only paying 40% on your income over like 90k, lower tax rates for income in lower brackets.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#239
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please make more meaningful contributions rather than simply feeling similarities with other users. That is what the upvoting feature is for.

The comment can be considered a meaningful contribution as well. Dialog is not only information but also flow enablers and/or facilitators. The fact that (s)he expressed sympathy/approval might show that others think the same, which in itself if a tidbit, if not too small. But it can greatly help others to chime in and relate or expand. If you block these expressions then you get a lecture/dissertation, chock full of…

HN has always blocked these kinds of responses, just as how they block pun, joke and meme threads. Memes are arguably more indicative of a community as they are an in-group norm, but HN has a clear stand against them as they dilute the quality of the discussion.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#240
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Contradict each other. Of course no one WANTS to work but there are things that HAVE to be done. Like farming, hunting, building shelter. Chopping firewood to keep warm in the winter. You know, modern, made up problems like that. But those are not made up problems, those are necessities and cost only a minimal amount of time per day, especially if it can be distributed over many more people. Anyway, how does it cont…

> But those are not made up problems, those are necessities and cost only a minimal amount of time per day Minimal, LOL. What world do you live in? I suggest you pay a visit to Amish country some day and see how people unencumbered with "made up problems" live. Farming and other survival-related tasks are literally ALL they do. And it's all you would ever do without people sitting in offices and factories tending to…

You seem to assume that I would be for 'back to basics', without machines and stuff, like the Amish, but that's not what I'm saying.

I'm just taking money out of the equation, which means there will still be a lot less jobs to do, resulting in way less work load.

Of course machines need to be produced and maintained, but only a fraction of what we build now, and as there is no reason to exercise planned obsolescence or nibble on the costs by choosing inferior materials, these machines have a way higher quality than we make now.

Another difference is that whatever work is still done, this will be done by people actually wanting to do this, out of interest and passion.

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