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Popcorn Time in Your Browser

popcorninyourbrowser.net

231–240 of 262 posts

Re: Popcorn Time in Your Browser

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not after free content, I'm after accessible content. This discussion is basically about how content industries, with all their clout, are somehow unable to match the usability of some dudes with a bit of spare time.

You just announced how you don't feel obligated to pay people money for content. You're after free content. Yeah, it's probably easier to make content accessible when you're willing to completely break the law and ignore the rights of the people who have invested in creating the content in the first place.

>You just announced how you don't feel obligated to pay people money for content.

This is what common core is doing to our children, people.

Re: Popcorn Time in Your Browser

#232
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is obliged to give me money -- unless they consume the content I created. At that point, they are. Anything else assumes that because content exists, people have the right to consume it -- for free if they can work out how. Let's be clear: I fully agree that Hollywood needs to catch up, and make content accessible in the way that Popcorn time has. But I don't have the right to consume content illegally, just b…

I feel this black/white scenario of "pay us for content or its illegal" ignores the reality of the market . There are plenty of social dynamics in play that are conveniently ignored. Music pirates in particular tend to buy more music than non-pirates. I would wager this holds true in any media-field of pirating (but perhaps not software pirating). [0] There is a reason for this! Pirates are enthusiasts . They love th…

I dispute that in the realm of video games, infringement has been demonstrated to be a net positive. Concrete examples abound of game developers who have quantifiable damages by infringement. [0]

Loss-of-sales is a bit harder to quantify, but it's touched upon by a comparison basis by this article: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3030/keeping_the_pirat...

I don't extend my claim to music or any other form of infringement.

[0] http://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/54749/has-piracy-...

Re: Popcorn Time in Your Browser

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly can Hollywood learn here? When Popcorn Time produces it's own content and distributes it in a consumer friendly way, then I think Hollywood has something to learn. Until then, this is just theft.

UI, UX, speed, efficacy, control? Quit with the shitty release schedules, regional locking/delays, etc etc. There's a lot to learn about what people want to use, now they have to work out how to do something that's as easy but monetised/legal. Netflix did it, and people are willing to pay. Not, perhaps, as much as they'd like though. That's where the real rub is. I won't pay £4 to rent a movie from iTunes. I won't pa…

Popcorn Time didn't do ANY of that. Do a Google search for intitle:index.of mkv -html -htm -php -asp -txt. Popcorn Time is THAT with a pretty UI. That's it. It in no way addresses any of the complication with releasing a movie in a consumer friendly way without theft.

Yes, the movie industry needs to change. But one cannot compare the hurtles they have to jump (and figure out how to eliminate) with a site that does nothing but put a pretty image on content theft.

There's whole catalogs of movies I bet the movie industry would love to make available but can't simply because they can't get streaming licenses from some now defunct band that did the musical score for it (for example). You cannot just gloss over these kinds of challenges by saying, "Well, some thief who knows PHP can do it!".

Re: Popcorn Time in Your Browser

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just announced how you don't feel obligated to pay people money for content. You're after free content. Yeah, it's probably easier to make content accessible when you're willing to completely break the law and ignore the rights of the people who have invested in creating the content in the first place.

>You just announced how you don't feel obligated to pay people money for content. This is what common core is doing to our children, people.

That sort of comment, Sir, makes me doubt that you are a true knight.

Re: Popcorn Time in Your Browser

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, if I play music in front of your home, and you enjoy it, can I demand you pay me money? It's not as clear-cut as you're making it to be.

You gave it away for free by playing it without an agreed upon contract. Had there been a contract, then yes, you could've taken them to court to enforce their side of it.

When I download a song from the bittorrent network, I'm under no contract with the label to pay for it.

On the other hand, if I coin a really good new word, everyone uses it without paying me, despite the value I have provided.

Re: Popcorn Time in Your Browser

#236
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel this black/white scenario of "pay us for content or its illegal" ignores the reality of the market . There are plenty of social dynamics in play that are conveniently ignored. Music pirates in particular tend to buy more music than non-pirates. I would wager this holds true in any media-field of pirating (but perhaps not software pirating). [0] There is a reason for this! Pirates are enthusiasts . They love th…

I dispute that in the realm of video games, infringement has been demonstrated to be a net positive. Concrete examples abound of game developers who have quantifiable damages by infringement. [0] Loss-of-sales is a bit harder to quantify, but it's touched upon by a comparison basis by this article: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3030/keeping_the_pirat... I don't extend my claim to music or any other form of in…

The examples cited all resulted in servers being overloaded due to piracy which is a fault of not authenticating who is connecting to the server. This is one facet where pirated copies can do harm and I will concede that.

Had the pirated copies been sold - the same server issues would have happened. Though they would have had more resources to handle the situation and it would turn out better for everyone (especially the iOS devs who had to go offline for 4 months to deal with the situation).

However, "offline" games (ie. solo campaigns) or distributed servers (ie. minecraft) that do not connect to a centralized server won't take away company resources. The idea behind piracy is that nothing is being stolen or taken, only duplicated. Taking away server resources has a negative impact and although it is also considered "piracy" I would consider it closer to "theft" (the same as stealing a physical server might be!)

Without arguing over semantics of the meanings behind the word 'piracy' - will you agree with me that the shared issue of all of your examples was unpaid server space being 'stolen' by pirates? We may disagree on whether lost sales matter or don't matter in this scenario, but I hope we can both agree that the stolen server space was definitely an issue.

The Gamasutra article where money was spent on making piracy harder doesn't give any metrics for a meaningful conclusion to be drawn.

Did Spyro 2 being cracked in a week actually harm sales at all? Difficult to quantify. How about the profit from the next Spyro? Was it more or less profitable? If it was less profitable - was that a result of spending money on piracy protection? If it was more profitable - was that a result of adding piracy protection or because the Spyro series had surged in popularity after the success of Spyro 2?

The answer is difficult to quantify, especially without relevant metrics given. What was the cost of adding the piracy protection? Can you quantify "popularity growth" between the two games? Can they estimate how many people would have bought the game if they could not pirate it?

Re: Popcorn Time in Your Browser

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You gave it away for free by playing it without an agreed upon contract. Had there been a contract, then yes, you could've taken them to court to enforce their side of it.

When I download a song from the bittorrent network, I'm under no contract with the label to pay for it. On the other hand, if I coin a really good new word, everyone uses it without paying me, despite the value I have provided.

You never were under contract. Someone who uploaded it probably was. Thus with them lies the breach of contract and penalties owed.

Re: Popcorn Time in Your Browser

#238
post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dispute that in the realm of video games, infringement has been demonstrated to be a net positive. Concrete examples abound of game developers who have quantifiable damages by infringement. [0] Loss-of-sales is a bit harder to quantify, but it's touched upon by a comparison basis by this article: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3030/keeping_the_pirat... I don't extend my claim to music or any other form of in…

The examples cited all resulted in servers being overloaded due to piracy which is a fault of not authenticating who is connecting to the server. This is one facet where pirated copies can do harm and I will concede that. Had the pirated copies been sold - the same server issues would have happened. Though they would have had more resources to handle the situation and it would turn out better for everyone (especially…

If I may go into a slightly related tangent for game devs.

Some game devs spend a lot of time and money trying to prevent people from modding their games. Some game devs make it easier to mod their games or even encourage it.

If a mod gets popular and gets a community growing around the game - is it doing good or is it doing harm? Assuming that a large amount of the community growth is from people pirating the game to play the modded version (and assuming none of the above server issues)

There are 2 sides with difficult-to-measure metrics.

1) Is the mod and the pirates playing it bringing enough attention to the game and free publicity/advertisement as to onboard new paying customers?

2) Is the time and money spent on preventing such a mod community from growing going to cost more than potential "lost sales" of pirated copies of the game? In addition, what is a "lost sale" and how are they measured?

To expand upon the issue of "lost sales" a bit:

Plenty of pirates argue that if they could not pirate a game - they would not purchase it either. I fall into this crowd. Outside of the stupid amount of money I've spent on League of Legends, I've only spent money on games I originally pirated. I purchased the game, purchased DLC, or purchased merchandise related to the game. If I could not pirate the game - I would not bother playing it, telling my friends to buy it, or buying merchandise from it (since I wouldn't know I liked it!)

By allowing people like me to pirate you actually win an otherwise lost sale. This is what makes these metrics so hard to quantify. Too many game studios consider all piracy to be a lost sale when people like me are the exact opposite. Without piracy we would have been a lost sale.

So it comes down to "which game studio/game dev do you want to take their word for?" Many of them attribute their success to piracy of their games. Some of them say piracy killed their game.

Without quantifiable metrics... how do we know the "killed games" didn't die simply because they were bad games that, piracy aside, nobody wanted to purchase?

From a business perspective, that's the far more likely scenario than the good games that the game devs claimed piracy helped selling well regardless of piracy because ???

TL;DR

My argument is that piracy doesn't kill bad games due to lost sales. They don't get any sales because their game is bad and few people are willing to pay for it. On the contrary, popular pirated games still do amazingly well because they are good games that people are willing to pay for even with the availability of pirating. To myself, makes more sense from an economic perspective for gaming media.

Re: Popcorn Time in Your Browser

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've fallen into the classic trap: No one is obliged to give you money. Finding a business model that works is your problem, not your customers. Forced lock-in is a model, but it's a violent one that makes people want to leave, and it's entirely predicated on there never being an escape hatch for your trapped customers. There is now an escape hatch for content customers. They're no longer beholden to the choice of…

No one is obliged to give me money -- unless they consume the content I created. At that point, they are. Anything else assumes that because content exists, people have the right to consume it -- for free if they can work out how. Let's be clear: I fully agree that Hollywood needs to catch up, and make content accessible in the way that Popcorn time has. But I don't have the right to consume content illegally, just b…

While I do follow your logic, and really don't disagree on a principle issue, I do think it's important to note that the concept of copyright and payment is a 'forced / legally created' scarcity problem. As in, the only reason there are laws that dictate creators get paid is because there are laws on the books that say so. It's a tricky subject, and a delicate discussion I think, but fundamentally important to keep in mind that barring natural scarcity, there's really no fundamental law of nature that indicates a creator must be compensated for creating.

Re: Popcorn Time in Your Browser

#240
post #70
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question isn't whether it's possible to charge anything . They're not compensating the content creators. If I steal cars and resell them for a fraction of their typical price, does that prove the car industry is broken?

Except when you steal a car, the owner doesn't have it anymore. If you would manage to clone a car and then resell it for a fraction of its price, it would mean the car industry is broken.

Ok, lets say I instead decide I don't like how companies sell their cars, so I 'protest' by stealing a copy of the schematics for the new 2016 model of some car. I construct and sell them for the price of materials, meaning I make no profit from them. Many people who wouldn't have paid 100k for the car now get the car for much cheaper. I'm robin hood now, right?
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