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Microsoft's new foldable keyboard

blogs.microsoft.com

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Re: Microsoft's new foldable keyboard

#231

Post by Namrog84 »

kabdib wrote: post #208
frik wrote: post #146

It's getting harder and harder to buy traditional high quality mouse and keyboards for PC. Microsoft and Logitech used to produce them. But the look at the current portfolio of Microsoft: http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/mice and http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/keyboards No traditional keyboard with cable and normal key-layout, no normal mouse like the IntelliMouse or Comfort Mouse 6000 (discontinued b…

I need a "split" keyboard so my choices are relatively limited. The Kinesys Freestyle 2 keyboards (with the tenting) are pretty decent replacements for older members of the Microsoft Natural series. The Kinesys boards are not perfect (the ESC key is a bit far out, and there are 8 special purpose keys on a bank on the left that are useless). But they've got inverted-T and the key feel is good. The MS Natural keyboard…

I've used and loved all the Microsoft ergonomic keyboards. Wired ones anyways. I've never had a problem with them and while I don't ever use any of the special keys or add ons.they don't distract or cause me issues ever.

Re: Microsoft's new foldable keyboard

#233

Post by 7952 »

freehunter wrote: post #221
7952 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does "post PC era" even have a meaning to anyone other than tech pundits? Is tablet hardware really better, or do people just prefer the software experience? In a world of commodity hardware that distinction is quite important. People will buy an IPad because it is easy to use and will reject the Windows 8 laptop because it is hard to use and ignore the practicality of the hardware.

It's both the hardware and the software. For $500, you can get a high quality, well designed piece of hardware tightly coupled with the software and it does everything you need it to do. If the iPad breaks, throw it out and get a new one. But chances are, it won't break (that is, unless you break it). Meanwhile for $500, you can get a cheap plastic laptop that will break on its own through normal wear and tear. It ru…

In general I think building operating systems is difficult and sooner or later you get a bad apple (no pun intended). Apple may have avoided this but it is common on Windows and some Android devices to have strange issues that are never really resolved. As we pile platform on top of platform this kind of emergent property becomes more likely. By simplifying things you just delay this for a few years before the bloat starts to pile up sooner or later somewhere in the stack.

We could easily see a return to more traditional hardware that gets back to simplicity. I would love to see affordable SoC laptops with discrete graphics running something like Ubuntu and Steam. This would be an amazing combination of reliable OS, high quality free software, and access to entertainment. Selling a device with good software included should be a selling point instead of tricking people into an app store pyramid scheme.

Re: Microsoft's new foldable keyboard

#234

Post by comex »

JetSpiegel wrote: post #230
comex wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look up the TextBlade, you will immediately see why its firmware needs to be more complex than your average keyboard.

Ok, I did looked it up, and still can't find anything worth updating? Different keyboard layouts? In the end of the day it's still a keyboard. You click the keys and it sends keycodes down a wire or using Bluteooth. What's there to update?

Well, since it uses multitouch and some smarts to figure out which letter in one of the merged keys you wanted to type, I imagine it would be more useful to update that algorithm than in a keyboard where one button press = one keycode. This goes especially so if that algorithm uses any text based prediction, although I don't know whether it does. The multitouch, combined with an accelerometer I read the device has, could also be used to add interesting gestures or pressure-sensitive functionality that don't directly map to key presses. You could send the raw data over the air instead of using firmware on the device, but then nothing would be able to use it out of the box, so what's the advantage?

Re: Microsoft's new foldable keyboard

#235

Post by Aldo_MX »

moron4hire wrote: post #229
Aldo_MX wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was just a matter of luck, try using [citation needed] with an argument the HN Community usually disagrees with (for ex. one which favors C or C++ over Rust or Go), and the results will be completely different.

Based on my own experiences with /r/programming and /r/startups, HN is very reasoned, respectful, and lacking in fanaticism in comparison. I think a lot of that has to do with the expectations that the moderators have established and their enforcement thereof. Though I don't necessarily agree with the mostly invisible way in which they do, I've never ran a site this big, so I don't really have the background necessar…

In general HN is pretty centered, but there is always a slight bias, I don't complain about it, it is expected, there's no place without bias.

But when you play the devil's advocate you have to take a little bit of extra care in your wording, or at least, this is the pattern I have noticed when your argument disagrees with the consensus.

Re: Microsoft's new foldable keyboard

#236

Post by scholia »

frik wrote: post #197
scholia wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please define overpriced. Maybe you earn your living with a keyboard and use it for 8+ hours a day. How much is that worth? Maybe you spend $1,000 a year on a mobile phone + contract when you could get something that does the same job for half the price or less. Maybe you spend $1,000 a year on Starbucks ;-) Is a $100 to $200 mechanical keyboard actually overpriced if it works well for 5 to 10 years or even more?

> Please define overpriced. I wrote "overpriced (gaming devices)". If I need a 90s/2000s style traditional office PC mouse (and keyboard) one has more or less resort to what's called PC gaming mouse/keyboard or keyboard with IBM/Cherry springs. The former is usually overpriced and often even of low quality (short life time) than the older generation of products. Example: a gaming mouse that costs $100 and has a crapp…

There are plenty of good keyboards around from companies such as Cherry, and they're aimed at the professional market, not at gamers..... http://www.cherry.de/cid/corded_keyboards.htm?rdeLocationAtt...

Sadly, there are no good keyboards on laptops anymore because keyboard quality is one of the things you sacrifice for thinness (as well as performance, ports, expandability and so on).

Thinkpad keyboards have been in decline for a long time. The one on my 240X was brilliant and the X31 etc were good. The X220 was the last good one, with the new style arriving with the X230, I think. I'm not familiar with the T range but I assume parallel numbers apply.

The solution that works for some is to buy two external keyboards, one for home and one for the office. You can put the laptop on a stand and this improves the ergonomics....

Re: Microsoft's new foldable keyboard

#237

Post by scholia »

digi_owl wrote: post #217
scholia wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of 2-in-1 Windows laptops where the tablet is completely detachable from the keyboard. Some are very popular, like the Asus Transformer T100 wiht a 10.1inch screen. (Yes, Asus launched an Android version years ago.) There are other Windows laptops where the screen folds back to provide a slightly heavier tablet, like the Lenovo Yoga 2 series and the HP11 x360. Windows 8.1 tablets can support USB keyb…

Makes me wonder how well a updated Fujitsu U1010 would do today.

We used to have quite a few nice, small machines. The one of the Psion Series 5 was amazing for the size. I had an HP Windows CE machine that was only a little bigger and the keyboard was even better. Lack of USB, SD and Wi-Fi rather limits their usefulness nowadays ;-)

Re: Microsoft's new foldable keyboard

#238

Post by codezero »

sliverstorm wrote: post #115
codezero wrote: post #13

My biggest gripe with almost all portable keyboards is that they can only be used on a flat, firm surface. If I have a flat, firm surface, I'm not mobile. Unless that MS keyboard locks, I can't sit it on my lap while I'm in the train, or in the back seat of a car. Where are people finding themselves, such that they need a portable keyboard, have a nice, stable flat surface, but also didn't bring their notebook? Shrug…

You could drape this one over your thigh, split keyboard style :)

Hah! Like the good old Microsoft Natural Keyboard, eh? I would go for that if it locked in place, actually, but the wobblyness would drive me nuckin futs.

Re: Microsoft's new foldable keyboard

#239

Post by joshuapants »

JetSpiegel wrote: post #230
comex wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look up the TextBlade, you will immediately see why its firmware needs to be more complex than your average keyboard.

Ok, I did looked it up, and still can't find anything worth updating? Different keyboard layouts? In the end of the day it's still a keyboard. You click the keys and it sends keycodes down a wire or using Bluteooth. What's there to update?

I think you're being purposefully obtuse here. This device is obviously more complicated than a standard keyboard and would definitely benefit from having a) sophisticated firmware, and b) the ability to update the firmware.

Re: Microsoft's new foldable keyboard

#240

Post by lisper »

GhotiFish wrote: post #223
AlfonsoP wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is very obvious to me that these keyboards on Amazon are a lot thicker than the MS keyboard (and probably a lot heavier). Look carefully at the thickness of the edge: the MS one is so thin that they had to create a bulge around its micro USB port! Also the Amazon keyboards are using hinges, but the MS keyboard fold is made of flexible material so it is probably more durable.

are you suuuuuuuuuure it's thinner? http://cdn.pocket-lint.com/r/s/727x/assets/images/phpkhkakk....

Yeah, it's thinner. The dimensions are on the Microsoft Store site: 0.45 inches vs 1.2 inches.

Still doesn't qualify as "reinventing the keyboard" IMHO.

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