Live data from Hacker News

Spidermonkey has passed V8 on Octane performance

robert.ocallahan.org

231–240 of 338 posts

Re: Spidermonkey has passed V8 on Octane performance

#231
post #22

As soon as firefox gets per process tabs in stable I'll switch back, I really want to switch from chrome but that's a deal killer for me.

I could survive without processes-per-tab, if Firefox gave some hint – any hint! – which tabs are being naughty. Maybe just a per-tab counter of allocations, or timeouts, or DOM edits, or some other operation? Anything that serves as a proxy for "more active than average while not in foreground".

Use the profiler in the developer tools. Run it for a short while (e.g. 10 seconds) and look at the results. The tab using the most CPU resources will be at the top of the result tree.

Re: Spidermonkey has passed V8 on Octane performance

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My memory was that there was a cold war, but not hot-and-heavy competition until chrome, although this article seems to agree with you. But man, Chrome sure got good fast. http://www.cnet.com/news/browser-war-centers-on-once-obscure...

Your memory might be based on press releases, not what was actually going on. Safari and Firefox had the jits in their development builds, and were actively competing with each other, but hadn't shipped them in a final release yet at the point when the existence of Chrome was announced. Those JITs shipped a few months after that, with the attendant press hoopla.

Safari never had the marketshare to make its JIT a 'threat'.

Besides, Chrome didn't just introduce V8, it also introduced a cleaner UI, sandboxed tabs, and eventually, a much better set of DevTools than any other browser.

To deny that competition from Chrome didn't put pressure on other vendors I think is trying to willfully discount it's contributions for political, not technical reasons.

Re: Spidermonkey has passed V8 on Octane performance

#233
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about? Totally lost after the first sentence here.

DuckDuckGo has a 'bang' feature, where you add a bang like '!g' to search a different site directly. For example, '!g hacker news' becomes ' https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&q=hacker%20news' .

Sorry, I understand that part. Was wondering what you meant by this (specifically the part about a "filtered down view of the world"):

"I find this better even just for the fact that I don't get the filtered down view of the world anymore - if there are things named similarly than the ones I use in the world, I want to know, so I can adjust my own naming."

It wasn't a loaded question or anything, not sure why I got down-voted either... (shrug)

Re: Spidermonkey has passed V8 on Octane performance

#234
I still use Firefox as my main browser, but while it has improved a lot in recent times, I don't know why are some root problems not getting fixed - memory hogging, browser hangs, crashes (yes, I still get them on my workstation - I've even reported the callstacks to them). Mostly, the answer is, "It's your add-ons" - oh yes, but when it comes to talking about their strengths, this is one of the first things they talk about - "add-ons".

For example, every other browser fixed this 12 year old bug [0] one by one, but Firefox doesn't care much about it. In fact, not only that they don't have any solution to it whatsoever, when people's resentment about the bug increased, they chose to just shut down their voices on it.

[0]: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=78414

Re: Spidermonkey has passed V8 on Octane performance

#235
post #116
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 for IE's touchscreen support. I keep holding out and using Chrome on my laptop for a few extensions and all of the bookmarks/passwords I have synced over the years, but IE makes Chrome look absolutely kludgy and clunky when it comes to performance and UI these days. It's a shame IE doesn't have a more approachable extensibility model...

Does IE run on anything but Windows these days? (Edit: Doesn't look like it. Alas.)

Not that I've tried that hard, but the most recent IE that I can run under WINE (Crossover Mac) is IE 8.

Re: Spidermonkey has passed V8 on Octane performance

#236

Firefox's hopeless video and audio implementation (especially on Mac OS X) remains a deal breaker for me. It means resorting to Flash in a lot of cases, which means I use another browser. I'm glad to see strides being made in JavaScript performance, but basic browser functionality is far more important.

HTML5 video and audio in Firefox works perfectly in every site I visit. What problems do you hit? I haven't used it on Mac so perhaps the support is less good there. Some sites don't attempt to use / in Firefox for me, but that's a site issue, not a browser issue - h264 and webm both work fine.

There are a few google related ones in Karl Dubost's list:

http://www.otsukare.info/2014/10/28/google-webcompatibility-...

Re: Spidermonkey has passed V8 on Octane performance

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> data that it would not otherwise get at. My argument is that nobody would have put that data online in a slow and sucky web. If you think Google wants full control over the audience, surely they also want a large audience. (Note that I do not think that Google is evil. But if they were, I don't think they would need chrome to get most of that information anyways, given all the other ways they are collecting data. S…

The web wasn't 'slow and sucky' before chrome appeared.

It wasn't even even slow and sucky before Firefox appeared; Opera was pretty nice even in 2000 :)

Re: Spidermonkey has passed V8 on Octane performance

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your memory might be based on press releases, not what was actually going on. Safari and Firefox had the jits in their development builds, and were actively competing with each other, but hadn't shipped them in a final release yet at the point when the existence of Chrome was announced. Those JITs shipped a few months after that, with the attendant press hoopla.

Safari never had the marketshare to make its JIT a 'threat'. Besides, Chrome didn't just introduce V8, it also introduced a cleaner UI, sandboxed tabs, and eventually, a much better set of DevTools than any other browser. To deny that competition from Chrome didn't put pressure on other vendors I think is trying to willfully discount it's contributions for political, not technical reasons.

There's a difference between "Chrome put pressure on other vendors" (which is clearly true) and "Chrome kicked off the browser performance wars, especially Javascript" (which is the statement I was responding to upthread).

Chrome obviously put pressure on other vendors in various areas, including performance. What just isn't true is that without Chrome there would have been no JS performance competition. Whether the competition would have been as intense as it ended up being is a debatable counterfactual; I believe it would have been.

One other historical note, since you brought it up: Chrome was first announced publicly Sept 3, 2008. The first public beta of IE 8, with tabs in separate processes, was released on March 5, 2008. These processes ran in a low-privilege sandbox, as in fact did the entire browser starting with IE 7 (released October 2006), on Windows Vista or newer. Chrome did provide the first browser sandbox on Windows XP and non-Windows platforms, which was a big step up, of course. Again, there is a difference here between "introduced a new ground-breaking concept" and "incrementally improved on what was already going on".

Oh, and V8 was clearly considered a "threat" by other browser makers way before Chrome had any market share to speak of, so I'm not sure what your remark about Safari is supposed to mean.

Re: Spidermonkey has passed V8 on Octane performance

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many perceivers, for instance, miss the distinction between "Don't be evil." and "Don't do evil.". The former is a mindset, strategy, and intention, while the latter is impossible for a corporation with 50k employees. No, we perceive the disctinction just fine. Some of us just believe Google does "evil" with mindset, strategy, and intention...

I would suggest that those of you that believe that are deluded. What possible motivation could they have for being "evil", comic book style?

No one said anything about comic book style. Google is the one that framed things in terms of evil. Are you saying Google meant it in a tautological way? That is, unless they start killing children or something really evil, it doesn't count?

Re: Spidermonkey has passed V8 on Octane performance

#240
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter. (disclaimer: googler) I see it as a hubris against the idea that Google claimed to not be evil, and the fact that evil is such a poorly defined concept, and whether or not Google meets the bar depends entirely on the values of the perceiver. Many perceivers, for instance, miss the distinction between "Don't be evil." and "Don't do evil.". The former is a mindset, strategy, and intention, while the…

What's the mindset that ends up with Chrome going out of its way to swap OK/Cancel when you enable DNT? (I don't think DNT is a real solution, but I'd guess Google wants to be able to point to data showing users don't enable it.) What's the mindset behind the broken permissions on Android? Where any app that wants to change behavior when you get a call must request permission to your IMEI and calling/called number? O…

> What's the mindset that ends up with Chrome going out of its way to swap OK/Cancel when you enable DNT?

Chrome dev here. The way the Chrome settings web UI is written does not lend itself to strong consistency, just eventual, as devs notice it and fix it. Your DNT example was fixed last week in https://codereview.chromium.org/665113003.

Another example of inconsistent button ordering: the overlay for disconnecting a managed profile has its buttons reversed from the usual order, while the overlay for disconnecting an unmanaged profile does not.

Post reply on HN