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Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

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Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#231

Post by joyeuse6701 »

enneff wrote: post #158
wyager wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because one group is marginalized in some way doesn't make it OK to intentionally marginalize another group in what can only be called retaliation. I personally subscribe to the ethos of "two wrongs don't make a right".

The GP makes the unsupported (and IMO spurious) claim that in Sweden, "females get a lot more attention in basically all areas of society". You're now categorising that (which may not exist) as aggression against men. Show us the evidence that men in Sweden are marginalised and I'll jump right on that anti-feminism bandwagon. I suspect I'll be waiting a while.

Swedish circumcision laws are an interesting topic.

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#232

Post by magicalist »

Crake wrote: post #225
kangaroo5383 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a conscious choice people make. It's a subjective perception issue, which is harder to fix. Example: In a room with a male and a female founder, most people will ask the male for technical help, while assuming the female is less competent technically. Interviews are highly subjective, so is wage determination.

That might be because a lot of women prefer other fields. If you pick a random female and a random male, chances are the female has far less relevant tech experience than the male. Even in "tech," they're more likely to be HR, graphic design, or a paid tweeter like Adria Richards was before her lack of basic git hub knowledge led her to try to bully people out of their jobs.

> That might be because a lot of women prefer other fields

...and it might not be. Still completely irrelevant to this event or these speakers.

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#233

Post by Crake »

enneff wrote: post #143
onmydesk wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"men considerably outnumber women. We (and I mean the egalitarian "we") have to do something about that." Why? What is that evidence of? You assume sexism presumably. Men and women are different and have predispositions to excel in different areas. You know what would be really weird? A 50/50 split. Why is that the definition of correct? Why are so few people rational about this?

> Men and women are different and have predispositions to excel in different areas. Then how do you explain the radical skew toward gender imbalance that occurred after the field of programming came into being? Back in the 60s and 70s there were many more women in computing research than there are today. This is not because of "predispositions". It is cultural.

I agree it's cultural.

Theory:

Women have more options now. They're choosing them.

Men have the same options now as they did then. They're choosing from a much more limited selection pool.

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#234

Post by Crake »

danilocampos wrote: post #147
Crake wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh geez, what was I thinking, you're totally right. You've convinced me, I'll shut up and check my white cishet male shitlord privilege. >You'll learn about the blind spots. The exclusion. >you'll learn how toxic it is when monocultures form >The lack of productive conflict Said the SJW to the minority, with absolutely no self-awareness at all.

I think you'll find /r/mensrights is on another website. I am sure they will welcome you there.

Oh good. I finally found a feminist who'll admit that their rivals are nicer to egalitarians than feminists are.

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#235

Post by magicalist »

reinhardt wrote: post #193
MartinCron wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some positions are outside the realm of legitimate debate. Ridicule is an appropriate response to ridiculous positions. Calling an event that is trying to integrate a community "segregationist" is about as ridiculous as it gets.

Fully agree. By the way, feel free to spread the word about my forthcoming event trying to bring together the 20-35yo, white male, Ivy league graduate, $150K+/year community. I'm sure I can count on your support for this integration effort.

> 20-35yo, white male, Ivy league graduate, $150K+/year community

the funny thing is that you see nothing ridiculous about trying to use this as a hypothetical counterpoint.

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#236

Post by MartinCron »

reinhardt wrote: post #193
MartinCron wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some positions are outside the realm of legitimate debate. Ridicule is an appropriate response to ridiculous positions. Calling an event that is trying to integrate a community "segregationist" is about as ridiculous as it gets.

Fully agree. By the way, feel free to spread the word about my forthcoming event trying to bring together the 20-35yo, white male, Ivy league graduate, $150K+/year community. I'm sure I can count on your support for this integration effort.

If it were a real integration effort, sure. Imagine you are trying to get that group into a segment of society they have been traditionally excluded from. Only then would that parallel make sense.

I am having a hard time picturing exactly what that could be. Law enforcement, maybe? Romance literature?

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#237

Post by magicalist »

elohesra wrote: post #202
chc wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that the numbers are "right" or "wrong." It's that the data shows there is nothing inherent about computer science that excludes women. So if women are not interested these days, there is something about the current state of affairs that is creating the friction. What we are doing here is rejecting the hypothesis "Women are simply, as a matter of nature, disinclined to go into computer science." "Right" and…

I don't actually think women are unsuited for CS, but I must say that I don't find the argument that 'in the past more women were in CS' very compelling, because it makes the pretense that all variables have remained constant over the past 40 years. The fact is that CS -- or what people on HN call CS -- has changed massively in 40 years. For instance, startups barely even existed 40 years ago, and they certainly were…

You're missing chc's point. The point is not that the older state of things was necessarily preferable, it's that the rate of women in CS fields is not steady state, which means that the status quo isn't by its mere existence evidence of the "natural" state of things (which would be the actual "conservative" argument).

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#238

Post by cube_yellow »

ChrisNorstrom wrote: post #224
quanticle wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, in what mystical era were CS grads ever "alpha"?

He's insecure and judges people and himself based on how manly and muscled they are. Read his other comments. Good guy, just needs to let go of things that don't matter.

There are no net downsides to placing a very high priority on becoming more "manly and muscled". I don't think any guy anywhere has ever regretted doing that. To me, it seems like a very obvious and neutral thing to evangelize.

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#239

Post by Mz »

cube_yellow wrote: post #70
_xo_ wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even assuming you are correct about this - CS is not one of these areas. If you go back a few decades, programming was a much more even leveled field. In the 80s, approximately 50% of all programmers were female. (For numbers see e.g. http://blog.fogcreek.com/girls-go-geek-again/ )

It looks like the average CS guy went from rather alpha to rather beta. So, the solution is for CS guys to start working out and stop playing video games. Creepy is code for unattractive, so if CS guys took much better care of themselves, socially intelligent women wouldn't be rightfully put off from CS in general.

Creepy is code for unattractive

I am really tired of hearing that. I do not think that is what women mean when they refer to someone as "creepy." Closer to "unattractive and won't give up in the face of no" perhaps.

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#240

Post by cube_yellow »

Mz wrote: post #239
cube_yellow wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like the average CS guy went from rather alpha to rather beta. So, the solution is for CS guys to start working out and stop playing video games. Creepy is code for unattractive, so if CS guys took much better care of themselves, socially intelligent women wouldn't be rightfully put off from CS in general.

Creepy is code for unattractive I am really tired of hearing that. I do not think that is what women mean when they refer to someone as "creepy." Closer to "unattractive and won't give up in the face of no" perhaps.

You can be creepy without even saying anything. E.g. "creepy guy standing in the corner".
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