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This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

ariannasimpson.com

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Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#231

Post by wonderzombie »

vacri wrote: post #200
hbags wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not dumb enough to try to change the stripes on a proudly bigoted jerk like Meritt. I just want anybody who sees his spew to know that his opinion is not the only one. I want any human who is harassed to know that if they share their story after the fact, that's good. And they shouldn't worry about the fact that some utterly worthless assholes like Meritt will try to shame them for speaking out. They shouldn't be…

I'm fine with a bit of profanity and would like to see more, personally. But when your comment is basically nothing but invective, you don't really have a leg to stand on when you're calling someone else worthless. And I'd like other potential Meritt's to realize how utterly disgusting it is that he tried to shame the victim into silence. Meritt said 'say something right then and there, it's more effective. Then writ…

Sorry, but this is part of a pattern. You may feel OK with treating this as an isolated incident, but it's not. It deserves to be lumped into a category of common responses to stuff like this: victim blaming and derailing.

It does approximately nothing to prevent a situation like this from happening. It puts the onus on a woman to deal with other people's utterly unacceptable behavior. It erases the responsibility not just of the aggressor, but everyone else in the room with her who did nothing.

I'm sure it's pure coincidence this also divests the commenter from any obligation to talk seriously about these issues.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#232

Post by vacri »

hbags wrote: post #206
vacri wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fine with a bit of profanity and would like to see more, personally. But when your comment is basically nothing but invective, you don't really have a leg to stand on when you're calling someone else worthless. And I'd like other potential Meritt's to realize how utterly disgusting it is that he tried to shame the victim into silence. Meritt said 'say something right then and there, it's more effective. Then writ…

No. what Merritt said that if you don't say something right there and then you should never be allowed to say anything. He's an asshole and a bully. If a victim doesn't protest withim his designated free-speech zone he doesn't want them to protest at all.

No, he never said or even intimated "don't write about it". He said that writing this article this way would only be read by people who already agree. He said it would be more effective to be proactive at the time. I disagree with him about such a thing spreading like wildfire, but there is nothing in what he said that meant "don't write at all". That's your projection. He said "if you do A, it won't be as effective as B".

The person who is being an arsehole and a bully is you, naming, shaming, strawmanning, abusing, and being generally vituperative.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#233

Post by GrahamsNumber »

jellicle wrote: post #78

To the younger folks out there: if you see something like this occur as a third party (you're neither the groper nor the gropee, neither the misogynist nor the victim), you need to not politely ignore it but to step in and correct the asshole, as firmly as necessary. Whether it's groping or just verbal putdowns of some sort, you should step forward and add yourself to the situation, making it clear that the behavior…

Umm... no.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#235

Post by dragonwriter »

hbags wrote: post #206
vacri wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fine with a bit of profanity and would like to see more, personally. But when your comment is basically nothing but invective, you don't really have a leg to stand on when you're calling someone else worthless. And I'd like other potential Meritt's to realize how utterly disgusting it is that he tried to shame the victim into silence. Meritt said 'say something right then and there, it's more effective. Then writ…

No. what Merritt said that if you don't say something right there and then you should never be allowed to say anything. He's an asshole and a bully. If a victim doesn't protest withim his designated free-speech zone he doesn't want them to protest at all.

> No. what Merritt said that if you don't say something right there and then you should never be allowed to say anything.

No, he says, explicitly, that not saying anything there and then but blogging about it later won't be as effective in producing the desired change.

He does not say that people shouldn't be allowed to talk about it after the fact without addressing it immediately, he says that doing so is not the ideal choice if the goal is to actually deal with the problem.

There's a universe of difference between what he said and your characterization.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#236

Post by wonderzombie »

UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #153
slewis wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not on the author to say something. There were a handful of other people there who could have spoken up. Please, everyone, if you witness this type of rude behavior, speak up. We are all, male, female, undecided, both etc. responsible for improving treatment of non-males in tech. Take an active role.

> Please, everyone, if you witness this type of rude behavior, speak up. We are all, male, female, undecided, both etc. responsible for improving treatment of non-males in tech. Take an active role. How are we meant to know this is "rude behaviour?" unless we are privy to allot of information about their personal lives they could have a previous relationship, could be married, or be hooking up. If I see a guy put his…

How about you ask? Start by being polite.

"Oh, I haven't been introduced. So how are you two connected?"

You'll to have to step out of your comfort zone for this even if it is immediately obvious. And if it's normal, you've lost nothing.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#237

Post by hbags »

pstack wrote: post #229
hbags wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. what Merritt said that if you don't say something right there and then you should never be allowed to say anything. He's an asshole and a bully. If a victim doesn't protest withim his designated free-speech zone he doesn't want them to protest at all.

Hbags, you are full of shit. Merritt said the behavior was unacceptable and the way to fix it is to address it when it occurs. Followed by the comment: --- "Running off to write yet another gender-division-in-the-tech-world blog which will be read, primarily, by the sort of folk who already agree with you isn't going to make nearly as much of a difference as taking care of issues promptly". --- Then said that a story…

You owe Merritt an apology

No way. Meritt clearly attempted to shame her for writing about something that, for whatever reason, she didn't confront immediately.

He's a censor. He's shaming her for protesting outside his designated free-speech zone. Fuck him.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#238

Post by dragonwriter »

vacri wrote: post #232
hbags wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. what Merritt said that if you don't say something right there and then you should never be allowed to say anything. He's an asshole and a bully. If a victim doesn't protest withim his designated free-speech zone he doesn't want them to protest at all.

No, he never said or even intimated "don't write about it". He said that writing this article this way would only be read by people who already agree. He said it would be more effective to be proactive at the time. I disagree with him about such a thing spreading like wildfire, but there is nothing in what he said that meant "don't write at all". That's your projection. He said "if you do A, it won't be as effective…

> He said it would be more effective to be proactive at the time. I disagree with him about such a thing spreading like wildfire

He didn't say that being proactive at the time would spread like wildfire, he said that being proactive at the time and writing about that experience afterward would.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#239

Post by wonderzombie »

sliverstorm wrote: post #132
king_jester wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you don't know who any of these people are, or how they know each other, it's hard to tell what's going on. By default, a meetup group of strangers is an environment that should be free of harassment, it is better to speak up and be told that contact is OK than to say nothing and let someone fend for themselves.

So you're going to go butt in on every couple there?

No, you will ask politely. It's 100% socially acceptable to ask about how people are connected or know each other.

If people get weird about it, apologize. "Sorry, I was just worried for a second that you were, like, groping her!" Laugh it off. Women are likely to respect you for the fact that you're even aware that this is a problem.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#240

Post by DorintheFlora »

dragonwriter wrote: post #238
vacri wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, he never said or even intimated "don't write about it". He said that writing this article this way would only be read by people who already agree. He said it would be more effective to be proactive at the time. I disagree with him about such a thing spreading like wildfire, but there is nothing in what he said that meant "don't write at all". That's your projection. He said "if you do A, it won't be as effective…

> He said it would be more effective to be proactive at the time. I disagree with him about such a thing spreading like wildfire He didn't say that being proactive at the time would spread like wildfire, he said that being proactive at the time and writing about that experience afterward would.

Would it? I personally doubt that. Do you have an example of something like that working? Or is that just speculation?
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