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What I Didn't Say

paulgraham.com

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Re: What I Didn't Say

#231

Post by Perceval »

smirksirlot wrote: post #209
nostromo wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self-selection, as you have done, is a hard problem to solve. Not just in tech, but in our entire culture. As noted elsewhere, Americans are sorting themselves by demographics. It feels awkward to be a woman in a predominantly male organization. It feels awkward to be a republican in San Francisco. It feels awkward to be gay in Mississippi. It feels awkward to be black in Portland. And so we place ourselves in locati…

As you said, victim blaming. It isn't just feeling awkward about things - there are consequences both psychologically, financially, and physically being an outcast. Being uncomfortable with a place isn't something the person can fix themselves - they neither have the power nor the ability to do so. Diversity begets diversity. The only way to do that is to set up systems and infrastructure that supports and enables th…

> there are consequences both psychologically, financially, and physically being an outcast

I think nerds and geeks are acutely aware of the costs of being outcasts. The period of their life when they typically turn to computers and programming is the same as the period in which they are socially marginalized (middle school / high school).

Re: What I Didn't Say

#232

Post by onebaddude »

rcfox wrote: post #109
ChrisNorstrom wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I appreciate pg stepping up to say something about women in tech." "Do at least one application cycle completely blind." Sorry but this comes off as insulting (I know that wasn't your intention), you applaud and agree with him then turn around and pull a "but I still don't trust you". As if PG can't be trusted, or you think that he's secretly sexist and want him to change his successful interview process just to pro…

> as if PG can't be trusted Just because we're in pg's house, it doesn't mean we have to treat him like a god. He's a fallible human being, just like the rest of us. The whole point of a blind interview is to prevent implicit bias that the bearer might not even be aware of.

>Just because we're in pg's house, it doesn't mean we have to treat him like a god

I'll be the first to agree with this, but I don't believe the guy owes anything to anyone. This idea that he should go out of his way to up-end an interview process to appease the writers of a hack-job and other whiners might be PC, but it's ludicrous.

My advice to PG: Leave it for the next person. If there is systematic sexism in tech incubators, that means there's economic profit to be made by targeting female founders. Someone else should hop to it!

Re: What I Didn't Say

#233

Post by aaronem »

iamjustin wrote: post #189
calibraxis wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So far seems he hasn't; he's explained why, and all the more power to him. BTW, I'm disappointed that only "witch hunt" (terrorism against women) is used in this particular thread so far. Where's "lynch mob" and "McCarthyism", to round out the irony trifecta? (Hilariously sick when men liken themselves to women, whites to blacks, and capitalists to communists.)

Both men and women were killed during the Salem Witch Trials. A "witch hunt" isn't terrorism against women.

I seem to remember hearing that the final score in Salem being nineteen women and one man. Given this data, trivial statistical analysis tells us that the use of "witch hunt" in this context is 95% sexist, a value well within the margin of error.

Re: What I Didn't Say

#234

Post by Perihelion »

smtddr wrote: post #217
jsmthrowaway wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, we're concerned about being misinterpreted and that misinterpretation being escalated instead of discussed with us so we can clear it up. But yeah, it's easier to just label us as sexists that like to joke about rape, right?

That's just an excuse. Why are you more worried that a female coworker will misunderstand you than a male one?

I see a LOT more drama surrounding the things that men have said/done. If I were a man I would absolutely be more concerned about my interactions with female coworkers over male ones.

Don't take this to mean that I think I can say/do whatever I want in this industry on account of being female -- no one is bulletproof. It just seems men are vilified more than women when it comes to these sorts of things. Maybe that's just my world view.

Re: What I Didn't Say

#235

Post by Dewie »

Perihelion wrote: post #195
Dewie wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While you and you alone have the power to change your behavior (and it would be awesome if you gave women the benefit of the doubt because we're not all this way...promise), I really can't place 100% of the blame on you either. Yet this seems to imply that you place most of the blame on him... though it seems that you are both (potential) victims here.

I apologize if it came off this way. I actually allocate blame 50% to him and 50% to the people that do this sort of thing. This is a circular problem to me. Some people seem quick to be angry about things and they lash out at people. Then the people being lashed are like "These people are CRAZY. I'd better steer clear of them." The ones lashing out may have been on the receiving end of something *ist and read into t…

Things like this can ruin lives (this according to you), yet you seem to write about this as if it is a simple attitude problem, in need of a "change in mentality" like being more reflected and aware of one's biases, and not (also) a matter of self preservation on his part.

Re: What I Didn't Say

#236

Post by mjburgess »

grellas wrote: post #229

A word about credibility. It comes from the Latin word credo , meaning "I trust." Its value exceeds that of money because it marks you as a person - as someone who is respected, who is trustworthy, and whom you would want to count as a friend. It marks you not as perfect but as special. It makes others ponder not so much that they did the last deal with you but that they would want to do the next deal too. Just as we…

Fine, he was mischaracterized and he replied.

But jesus,

> pg's response is actually priceless: it is like a soft-spoken witness upending a bullying lawyer who had just viciously attacked him, leaving the attacker reeling for all to see.

What's with the almost cult-like reverence for this largely pseudo-intellectual entrepreneur?

Re: What I Didn't Say

#237

Post by marquis »

MartinCron wrote: post #213
001sky wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This raises a good point, but informal inferences about age, ethnicity, and sex can be made from other parts of the application. Statistics on the discrimination of Ivy league schools show that (east) Asian face a stacked deck in college applications at "selective" schools[0]. Its plausible that much of this is inferred from ethnic names. To the extent it impacts the short-lists for interviews (ie, before candidates…

The last time I was hiring, I wished I could easily review resumes without seeing the names, email addresses, physical addresses, school names, or even telephone numbers as I felt that I was bringing in my arbitrary bias. Telephone numbers? I found that I identified a lot more with area code 206 than 425 or 253, just as I identify a lot more with an @gmail.com address than @hotmail.com or @aol.com.

That's a great idea. Next time we put out a request for resumes we might just make something that allows for this. And put it on github..

Re: What I Didn't Say

#238

Post by aaronem »

drakeandrews wrote: post #226
jneen wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not sure why i can't reply to ars_technician, but fwiw sexism is a problem that we need protections against.

HN hides the reply button on some comments that it deems might start flame wars (or similar). If you click the link link, that will let you reply from there.

The "reply" link is also hidden on comments posted less than some (0 < n < 9) number of minutes prior to page load, but the same trick works in that case as well.

Re: What I Didn't Say

#239

Post by nashequilibrium »

onebaddude wrote: post #227
nashequilibrium wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should read "The fall of Long Term Capital Management by Robert Lowenstein". Fratty culture is not limted to the young or inexperienced. John William Meriwether - born August 10, 1947 Myron Samuel Scholes - born July 1, 1941 Robert Cox Merton - born 31 July 1944

The book is "When Genius Failed", and though it's been a a while since I've read it, I don't recall either of the Nobel Prize winners (nor Merriwhether, for that matter) participating in any "frat-like" behaviour. Not everyone who works at a hedge fund comes from the cast of Boiler Room . Talk about painting people with the same brush...

I read the book, read the part about the way they carried on at Salomon Brothers, very frat like without the wild parties & shots. Nobody labelled the Hedge Fund industry as boiler room types, especially since i spent 4yrs in the industry on the stat arb side.

Re: What I Didn't Say

#240

Post by wmeredith »

mjburgess wrote: post #236
grellas wrote: post #229

A word about credibility. It comes from the Latin word credo , meaning "I trust." Its value exceeds that of money because it marks you as a person - as someone who is respected, who is trustworthy, and whom you would want to count as a friend. It marks you not as perfect but as special. It makes others ponder not so much that they did the last deal with you but that they would want to do the next deal too. Just as we…

Fine, he was mischaracterized and he replied. But jesus, > pg's response is actually priceless: it is like a soft-spoken witness upending a bullying lawyer who had just viciously attacked him, leaving the attacker reeling for all to see. What's with the almost cult-like reverence for this largely pseudo-intellectual entrepreneur?

It's his website ;)
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