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Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

arstechnica.com

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Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#231

Post by xerophtye »

grej wrote: post #21
ScottBurson wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think any of the recent proposed legislation is intended to address a situation like this, where all the players are large companies with deep pockets.

Good point. Although this particular case highlights one of the key problems in the entire system. Shell corporations with very little assets are established as the suing entity in order to shield the much larger and wealthier owners from any counter-suit liability. If that aspect of the current system were changed and you could pierce the shell corp to get at the real beneficiaries, it would alter the landscape for…

Will you please enlighten me on how these shell corporations are used? i thought they existed to avoid negative PR

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#232

Post by gaius »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #214
WaterSponge wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marketing is a natural occurrence. All companies/people/groups market themselves in one way or another. Your not exactly forced to buy into whats being sold. Why is everyone so stuck on google core being a marketing company? I think its the least of evil profit motivations since hell I might actually be interested in what google has figured out I may want... Vs being locked out without any options and force into deal…

For me the issue isn't marketing itself. It's that in order to show me personalized ads they need to know a lot about me. They have to compile and store a personal profile that can be stolen or subpoenaed by anyone who is sufficiently capable or powerful. But I agree that there is a dilemma. The alternative to ad based business models is to make a payment via a credit card, which identifies me even more directly and…

Microsoft and Apple make money by selling actual products. Google makes money by selling you.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#233

Post by abecedarius »

ekianjo wrote: post #28
bpodgursky wrote: post #18

I know it's been said before, but to reiterate: outrage doesn't help anything, but buying products from these companies DOES hurt. If you're truly outraged enough to want to take action, take action - writing to your representatives - donating to the EFF or other organizations - by not donating another $2k to Apple for a new Mac*, implicitly endorsing these bullshit tactics - not developing for those platforms (App S…

"Don't buy Macs" is not going to work well around here. Most HNers develop software on Mac and see it as the ideal development platform. I'd say they don't care about what Apple does (it's not the first time Apple does that either).

I stopped buying Macs a few years ago. I'm happy with my Thinkpad X1 Carbon, and apparently there are some nice newer machines too.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#234

Post by bane »

pg wrote: post #61

It's a little early to say for sure, but I predict this will do more to hurt Apple's reputation in the tech community than anything they've done before. And that is not a good community to alienate. I would not be surprised if they look back on this move one day and feel that they ended up net worse off as a result. Apple used to be careful not to alienate hackers. And Microsoft has been gradually digging itself out…

Yet hackers will continue to vote with their wallets, buying Apple products and perpetuating this continuous pattern of bad behavior.

Of course the pragmatic alternative, Microsoft, isn't exactly know for being the good behaving kid on the block either.

And mucking around with home-built PCs running some Linux distro doesn't have the same appeal to me it had 10 years ago.

So what to do?

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#235

Post by bane »

fpgeek wrote: post #142
pg wrote: post #61

It's a little early to say for sure, but I predict this will do more to hurt Apple's reputation in the tech community than anything they've done before. And that is not a good community to alienate. I would not be surprised if they look back on this move one day and feel that they ended up net worse off as a result. Apple used to be careful not to alienate hackers. And Microsoft has been gradually digging itself out…

I agree that this will hurt Apple's reputation, but, in my opinion, this should already have been "priced in". Apple never really repented after the "look-and-feel" lawsuit. Many hackers just didn't notice because they were an underdog climbing out of a deep hole for so long. Now that the worm has turned and Apple has their do-over we can see that they never changed their spots. They just improved their legal tactics…

Apple "priced in" their legal retainers into the impressive profitability of their products.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#236

Post by psbp »

cloudwalking wrote: post #225
Joeri wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, iphone and windows phone are the alternatives to google's > 80% hegemony at this point. Still, google is a far nicer market owner than apple or microsoft ever were. They don't abuse their dominant position, which is why their competitors are forced to take private legal action instead of running to the government for help.

Google doesn't have >80% of the market. Android has >80% of the market. Google does not control Android. Yes, Google provides a lot of services for Android users, but Android works fine without Google services. Everybody is so quick to forget about "Android fragmentation," but fragmentation is a clear indicator of Google's lack of control over Android.

So who picks up the slack if Google developers aren't contributing to Android?

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#237

Post by makomk »

threeseed wrote: post #102
ekianjo wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I remember correctly, Google has always said they would only use these patents in a defensive manner if they ever get them. http://www.androidcentral.com/google-pledges-only-use-open-s... That's very different from Apple or Microsoft.

Please. Stop acting like Google is some innocent child. It's pathetic. Google has been using SEPs as weapons and undermining standards and the huge benefits they bring to humanity.

If I were to blame one company for undermining standards, it'd be Apple for consistently refusing to license standards-essential patents and Obama for protecting Apple. Remember, the reason all their other competitors have so many standards-essential patents and Apple have essentially none is because the other companies worked to develop those standards and Apple just came along years later and took the benefit of their work for free whilst suing them over dubious software patents.

What's the point of putting in the work and money to actually develop standards if someone can walk into your industry, take all that work for free, and use their non-FRAND-licensed patents to stop you from selling anything? Far better to forget standards, abandon fundamental technology work, and spend the time and money building your own non-FRAND patent warchest instead.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#238

Post by alextingle »

pkaler wrote: post #75
37prime wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am Secretary Not Sure if I could read anything by Rob Enderle. Please find a better, umm more reliable source.

Your logical fallacy is: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem Conveniently, there is a bullet point list of 5 items in the middle of that article. You are free to disagree with any of those points: http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html

Incorrect. If I read the article, and then dismiss the content simply because it was written by Rob Enderle, then that's ad hominem. On the other hand if I notice the article is written by well-known-fool Rob Enderle and don't bother reading it, then that's just good time management.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#239

Post by alextingle »

serge2k wrote: post #84
bpodgursky wrote: post #18

I know it's been said before, but to reiterate: outrage doesn't help anything, but buying products from these companies DOES hurt. If you're truly outraged enough to want to take action, take action - writing to your representatives - donating to the EFF or other organizations - by not donating another $2k to Apple for a new Mac*, implicitly endorsing these bullshit tactics - not developing for those platforms (App S…

but the screen on my new macbook is so nice :( Besides, google isn't exactly a wonderful company lately. Their ads and related policies, ugh.

Really? I thought all Apple monitors had horrible glossy surfaces.
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