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A Wretched Google Interview Experience

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Re: A Wretched Google Interview Experience

#231

Post by mikeash »

varelse wrote: post #210
typon wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Given the sheer size of Google Microsoft has more employees and the three times I interviewed with them (and got accepted) it was a great experience, with perfect communication from their recruiters and interviewers. The one time I interviewed with Google (and got accepted, but I rejected them for MS) I pretty much went through a similar experience as the blog post, although the interviews themselves weren't bad, j…

When I was at Google, I was told over and over again that blind allocation was necessary because no other method of placing employees would scale to Google's size. Whenever I pointed out that the bigger the company, the more teams there would be to absorb and place incoming employees, the googlers in question would just ignore the response and emphasize that blind allocation was necessary because no other method of p…

I always love it when people make appeals to scale when they just don't apply. For it to work, there has to be some kind of non-linearity at play. In any circumstance where the total cost rises in proportion to the total size, it's just nonsensical.

Re: A Wretched Google Interview Experience

#232

Post by seiji »

throwaway86 wrote: post #82
mattzito wrote: post #34

An acquaintance of mine applied for a product management job, did two interviews in NY that went fine, then was flown out to MTV for a series of interviews. When this person got there, two of the people they were supposed to meet with were traveling on business and hadn't notified the recruiter. A third was out sick. The supposed-to-be fourth, now first interview walked into the room and said, "Look, I don't have any…

It's not any better if you get hired. Google recruiters will tell you whatever you want to hear, including things that are not necessarily true. I was assured that a minor issue in my background would not be an issue multiple times (I have email proving this), then Google hired me and let me work for more than two months. I got comfortable, I moved to Mountain View, began real honest work and set about making an impa…

You think G+ is annoying now? Just wait.

I'd love to hear what else you can dish about that.

Re: A Wretched Google Interview Experience

#233

Post by keithpeter »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #140
keithpeter wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guilty as charged :-) As an interviewee, I have, more than once, thanked my hosts for their tea and cake and left early when I detected that the interview was turning into a chat. Would a collegiate interviewing model not work better for an intellectually driven organisation like Google? Each team interviewing for their own positions, but with some form of 'tenure track' process for the longer term?

It would certainly make more sense. Sure, have one or two screening calls, but the main interviews should really be done by the team you're going to be on. Not some expert in algorithms who deems your solution to a question not good enough. I mean, how many times have you heard an engineer say, "It's not pretty, but it gets the job done." ?? The 'tenure track' is a great idea. How would you implement it though? Just…

"The 'tenure track' is a great idea. How would you implement it though? Just curious."

As I said a few levels above, I am not a programmer. I'd imagine it might work like academic departments, a series of short contracts (well paid!) leading if successful to a more permanent place with some ability to direct own work.

I get the impression people are dealing with firehoses rather than trickles (talk of 'recruitment pipelines' like in a tyre factory) so perhaps the collegiate model just won't work.

Re: A Wretched Google Interview Experience

#234

Post by mason55 »

AnIrishDuck wrote: post #191
kevingadd wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The skills being evaluated in Google interviews (and on topcoder) are of minimal use in most real problem-solving environments. They're a proxy for skill - something many skilled candidates happen to have alongside the skills you actually want. Linked list questions are a favored choice of this class of interviewer despite the fact that 90%+ of programmers will never have a good reason to write a linked list - or eve…

> Linked list questions are a favored choice of this class of interviewer despite the fact that 90%+ of programmers will never have a good reason to write a linked list - or even use one, for that matter. If you can't write basic algorithms to manipulate linked lists (traversal, reversal, etc) on demand, you almost certainly aren't a good coder. These kinds of questions are a good weed-out pass. They don't correlate…

> You shouldn't be expected to know Floyd's algorithm

And yet it's a somewhat common interview question

Re: A Wretched Google Interview Experience

#235

Post by throwaway86 »

jfarmer wrote: post #184
throwaway86 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And blacklist myself entirely from this career? This throwaway comment is pushing it already in terms of burning bridges, not to mention getting fired from Google itself after my extended network congratulated me on the position. Who, in this incestuous valley, would hire the guy that sued Google for an employment issue? I've seen it happen, no way. Right to work, too, sigh. To be clear I moved from the Oakland area…

No, any settlement would almost certainly include a mutual non-disclosure agreement and mutual non-disparagement agreement. Complaining about it here makes it more difficult to get those, though, and any settlement in general. Moreover, that's not how it works in SV. Assuming you do good work, nobody will care if you sued Google and settled except perhaps Google. I know plenty of engineers who were fired from compani…

I appreciate your thoughts and haven't taken them lightly.

That's the thing, is this stupid college mistake on my record undermines my integrity. Never mind that I've been employed at multiple companies and been trusted with user data far and beyond what Google would ever trust me with.

I would have hoped that after a five year history in this industry, I would have demonstrated some integrity. Not even my character references, who will happily vouch for my integrity, can sway these people.

Remember folks, HR is not your advocate. They are risk mitigation.

Re: A Wretched Google Interview Experience

#236

Post by mikeash »

zxer wrote: post #110
Me1000 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Phone screenings do not require signing an NDA (just a "we explicitly ask you not to share the questions you're asked"), but if they bring you on site you will be asked to sign one.

Except when not. When I was interviewing they didn't make me sign one. They rejected me for the original position, but later occasionally called me with some alternate options. These calls usually went like: - We would be interested in having you at/as ... but before the specifics, you signed an NDA, right? - No, I have not. - Oh, then good luck, bye.

They're doing it ever so slightly wrong if they just take your word for it like that!

Re: A Wretched Google Interview Experience

#237

Post by throwaway86 »

FreakLegion wrote: post #160
throwaway86 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And blacklist myself entirely from this career? This throwaway comment is pushing it already in terms of burning bridges, not to mention getting fired from Google itself after my extended network congratulated me on the position. Who, in this incestuous valley, would hire the guy that sued Google for an employment issue? I've seen it happen, no way. Right to work, too, sigh. To be clear I moved from the Oakland area…

>Who, in this incestuous valley, would hire the guy that sued Google for an employment issue? I would. Unfortunately I'm up north in Sacramento. I don't know how long ago your ordeal was, what your situation is now, or your engineering background, but feel free to ping me.

I'm flattered. Thank you.

Re: A Wretched Google Interview Experience

#238

Post by throwaway86 »

doktrin wrote: post #189
zorpner wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Appalling behavior on Google's part. Amazingly, I know two other people to whom this exact thing has happened (neither of which are you based on details in your story). One was so determined to work for Google that she reapplied after getting the incident expunged from her record (and got rehired -- based on their hiring practices who knows if they had any idea she was the same person). I'm moving out to the Bay Area…

If you're at liberty to share : did your acquaintances also disclose the incidents during the hiring process, only to be terminated randomly once employed? If so, that is utterly appalling. Bad enough that it should happen once (to the parent), but repeated incidents would point to some gross organizational dysfunction.

I asked the HR Manager point blank if Google made a mistake here, waiting two months to act upon information available to them before they extended me an offer. She countered that I was the one who had made the mistake in 2007.

I served my probation sentence and am beyond tired of being punished for the same thing. If hiring people are reading this and understanding just that last sentence that I typed, then I'm happy.

Re: A Wretched Google Interview Experience

#239

Post by throwaway86 »

seiji wrote: post #232
throwaway86 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not any better if you get hired. Google recruiters will tell you whatever you want to hear, including things that are not necessarily true. I was assured that a minor issue in my background would not be an issue multiple times (I have email proving this), then Google hired me and let me work for more than two months. I got comfortable, I moved to Mountain View, began real honest work and set about making an impa…

You think G+ is annoying now? Just wait. I'd love to hear what else you can dish about that.

I signed a nondisclosure agreement and upholding it is part of my demonstration of integrity. I would never go back on an agreement that I signed, and were the legal framework not in place anyway, I'm not a "fuck me? Well fuck you" sort of person. I only mentioned it at all because most of those motions have been expressed publicly.

The direction is folly. I'll just say that.

Re: A Wretched Google Interview Experience

#240

Post by AnIrishDuck »

kevingadd wrote: post #218
AnIrishDuck wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Linked list questions are a favored choice of this class of interviewer despite the fact that 90%+ of programmers will never have a good reason to write a linked list - or even use one, for that matter. If you can't write basic algorithms to manipulate linked lists (traversal, reversal, etc) on demand, you almost certainly aren't a good coder. These kinds of questions are a good weed-out pass. They don't correlate…

I get the impression you didn't read the part of my post where I said these algorithms are useful. The problem is expecting a candidate to have them memorized and be able to rattle off a particular algorithm from memory in a 15-30 minute interview window, when in the REAL WORLD if you don't remember the exact details of an algorithm, you look it up or grab it from a library instead of writing a busted implementation…

> The problem is expecting a candidate to have them memorized and be able to rattle off a particular algorithm from memory in a 15-30 minute interview window

I get the feeling that we're talking past each other. It certainly seems that we have different kinds of interviews in mind. I'm referring to about an hour long session where a candidate is asked to solve a basic problem with a linked list. The candidate shouldn't be expected to have the algorithm memorized. Competent developers should be able to work out simple algorithms manipulating a linked list given an hour's time.

> you look it up or grab it from a library instead of writing a busted implementation yourself.

Usually. Sometimes there is no library. The point is the candidate should be able to write the library themselves if needed. The beauty of many linked list questions is that no reference is needed to work out the optimal answer (Flynn's algorithm being a notable exception).

> There are lots of ways to evaluate critical thinking and problem solving skills that don't rely on a candidate having memorized the contents of a CS textbook.

Again, I don't think that linked list traversal and reversal require some kind of arcane CS knowledge. Interviewers shouldn't be asking for e.g. on-the-spot implementations of Dijkstra's algorithm, the Hindley-Milner type inference system or the max-flow problem.

> A better interview question is one that focuses on solving a real problem for a hypothetical customer, because that's what most engineers actually get paid to do.

This is a good complement to a basic algorithmic / coding test. But it doesn't replace such a test.

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