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JavaScript right on the hardware

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Re: JavaScript right on the hardware

#231

Post by unwind »

nawitus wrote: post #147
phpnode wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you probably mean a Lisp Machine - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisp_machine

Found what I meant: B5000 directly supported higher level languages.

Thanks, that (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burroughs_large_systems#B5000) seems like a very interesting processor. A few tidbits that caught my eye:

    - All code automatically reentrant
    - Partially data-driven tagged and descriptor-based design
    - First commercial implementation of virtual memory

Re: JavaScript right on the hardware

#232

Post by pjmlp »

driverdan wrote: post #207
PommeDeTerre wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've dealt with these kind of programmers on numerous occasions. While they may claim to know other programming languages, they usually don't know much about them at all, in reality. If they do know another language, it's PHP, which is just about as bad as JavaScript in most respects. Any programmer who has real experience with a variety of different programming languages will become very aware of how inferior JavaSc…

What a bunch of pompous bullshit. From what you've said it seems you've never met a talented JS programmer.

Do they exist?!

Re: JavaScript right on the hardware

#233

Post by Tichy »

dkuntz2 wrote: post #92
Tichy wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure if you write very low level stuff, C is probably more suitable. I wonder how much today's "embedded devices" still have in common with traditional embedded devices, though? If it is capable of running JavaScript, it probably is a lot more powerful than some microprocessor with just 2KB RAM where you have to squeeze every bit out of your code. On the PI you can run a complete Linux installation. I don't think the…

JavaScript, and scripting languages in general (and, to be more specific, dynamically typed languages, too, but those tend to be scripting languages, anyways) tend to have a lot of gotchas, and when it comes to controlling physical things, I think that less gotchas are better. Yes, statically typed languages just put a bunch of metadata in the code, but I think it's useful to have the guarantees provided by a static…

It would definitely depend on the kind of project (for me at least). I probably wouldn't recommend writing the controller for some medical device in JavaScript. My impression was that devices like the one here are more for tinker projects, making LEDs blink and stuff like that.

Although I also don't agree that statical typing makes things so much more safe. And what can also happen is that in the world of statically typed languages bad workarounds are then invented for the inflexibility. An example would be the XML craziness that plagued the Java world for a long time.

Re: JavaScript right on the hardware

#234

Post by pjmlp »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #229
14113 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally it worries me because people can build whatever they want and call themselves "programmers". It encourages a state in the industry when knowing about data structures, hardware, turing machines or the other fundamentals of computer science are considered unecessary. Perhaps they are, from a business standpoint. However, it will eventually inhibit growth of the discipline as a whole. A common rebuttal to tha…

You seem to think these programmers are content with simply learning only what they need to know and calling it a day. As a self taught developer, I find it offensive that you think I would go through all the trouble of teaching myself how to code, and then rest on my laurels, like I wasn't inherently curious and thoughtful. Since learning Javascript front to back, I've developed a curiosity with strictly typed langu…

People like yourself are the exception, usually the majority follows what the parent post was stating.

As someone that codes since 1986 with a CS degree, I am often dismayed what many "programmers" seem to know nowadays.

Re: JavaScript right on the hardware

#235

Post by eropple »

threeseed wrote: post #129
coreyja wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slightly off topic, but is it just me or has Lua gotten a lot of attention on HN in the past weekish? I haven't heard much of Lua before but recently it seems to have come up a lot more. And even more off topic (sorry), what makes Lua better/different than other scripting languages? EDIT: On jacobwcarlson suggestion, I Googled Lua vs Python, and found this Wiki, http://lua-users.org/wiki/LuaVersusPython Not a speed c…

I don't know where it is coming from as well. But one area where Lua is gaining traction is because it is the only high level language that is integrated with Nginx.

Bug, not feature.

Running your own code inside your front-facing web host was bad when Apache brought in mod_php and is bad now.

Re: JavaScript right on the hardware

#236

Post by pjmlp »

test-it wrote: post #186
marssaxman wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what you mean by that. I meant exactly what I said: I feel sorry for anyone whose linguistic toolbox is so limited that Javascript is their best option for writing low-level code for manipulating electronic devices. It is hard to imagine a more profound mismatch between the tool and the problem it is supposed to solve.

I feel sorry you lack basic understanding of linguistics. Any major programming platform today is too complex for a single individual to understand completely. One can spend his time learning several languages (and the platform they run on) or concentrate on a single language. I'd say it's obvious the second choice leads to higher productivity. You don't see professional musicians trying to play 10 different instrume…

All the professional musicians I know master more than one instrument, even if they show up with just one of them.

Re: JavaScript right on the hardware

#237

Post by Ygg2 »

14113 wrote: post #156
coreyja wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I ask why it worries you? Honestly just curious. Is it the performance hits of more levels of abstraction? Or fear of all data being in the "cloud"?

Personally it worries me because people can build whatever they want and call themselves "programmers". It encourages a state in the industry when knowing about data structures, hardware, turing machines or the other fundamentals of computer science are considered unecessary. Perhaps they are, from a business standpoint. However, it will eventually inhibit growth of the discipline as a whole. A common rebuttal to tha…

As opposed to studying for five years in a college, learning Java and programming in Java exclusively, never learning anything outside the Java and never perfecting?

People's curiosity is what motivates them to experiment and learn new things, not how or what language they learn (I started with Basic which apparently causes brain damage and I'm getting along fine). If they are curious on their own, they'll pick up data-structures/asm/c etc.

Re: JavaScript right on the hardware

#238

Post by Ygg2 »

pjmlp wrote: post #234
dclowd9901 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to think these programmers are content with simply learning only what they need to know and calling it a day. As a self taught developer, I find it offensive that you think I would go through all the trouble of teaching myself how to code, and then rest on my laurels, like I wasn't inherently curious and thoughtful. Since learning Javascript front to back, I've developed a curiosity with strictly typed langu…

People like yourself are the exception, usually the majority follows what the parent post was stating. As someone that codes since 1986 with a CS degree, I am often dismayed what many "programmers" seem to know nowadays.

To quote Sturgeon "90% of everything is CRUD". Majority of people that get CS now is due to money (how else to justify the expense of a diploma?), not the appeal computers have, and it's been like that for a while.

Lowering barrier to entry is +EV move, almost always. It multiplies crud but more importantly multiplies the 10% that are worth the crud.

Re: JavaScript right on the hardware

#239

Post by Tichy »

wiredfool wrote: post #58
chad_oliver wrote: post #6

This is very cool, but I don't see how it can compete with boards like the BeagleBone Black. The BleagleBone Black is $45 for a 1GHz CPU and 512 MB of memory, yet the access to low-level hardware is just as good.

I don't see a price yet for this one. I like the pi (and the beaglebone) because they've already got the network hardware, but the gpio isn't as robust as on the arduino (3.3v vs 5v, very low current capacity on the pi, and no analog io). I can't say I particularly want the javascript, but if they've got wifi and arduino compatible gpio for ~ $25, then I can find a use for it.

Does the Pi have WiFi, though? Mine doesn't, but perhaps I don't have the latest model.

Re: JavaScript right on the hardware

#240

Post by gfwilliams »

I've been working on another embedded JavaScript project - first posted on here almost a year ago, and soon to go on KickStarter: http://www.espruino.com

This is really interesting though. It looks like they've got linux and node.js into 32mb RAM, which is seriously impressive. It seemed as if people were trying and failing on Carambola (but that may have been because it didn't use an ARM CPU...)

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