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Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

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Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#231

Post by crusso »

darkarmani wrote: post #224
king_jester wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hate to use this tone but, so be it. Maybe now you morons who continue to vote in the pieces of shit into our government who are bent on taking more and more power for themselves will wake up and figure it out? How much more proof do you need? Does this make you angry yet or is Obama still your diety? Oh, and Republicans don't get a pass either. > The point is that all of you morons voting like robots along party…

> This is not true. Although some policies and attitudes have changed since 9/11, US society has not fundamentally changed and the major problems pre-9/11 are the same post-9/11. We have way more problems after 9-11. We've invented more problems, starting with the TSA that nudiescans and molests people -- the Patriot act, spying on Americans, other fear mongering.

I've noticed that some people have a certain color blindness when it comes to these security/privacy issues. They just don't see them or "get" them. No amount of increased government intrusion would affect them unless it happens to them very personally and viscerally.

Even after a dramatic event, it's unlikely that they'll realize that they willingly walked all the steps to get to the point where they were suddenly and massively violated by the State. They'll look to blame other factors that they weren't responsible for supporting.

Such is psychology.

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#232

Post by killerpopiller »

stfu wrote: post #174
killerpopiller wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no, it is, fanfare.., Germany. I read this above report and can't believe it. When that this happen? Our data privacy laws are thorough and sometimes an obstacle, but many projects got stopped because of privacy issues: e.g. the digital stored medical records on ones health insurance card The stop of the data retention directive by our beloved Bundesverfassungsgericht (they are awesome) is another milestone. Core of…

It is about time that certain "accidents" are going to convince those bloody Germans how beneficial a stronger surveillance system is! Conspiracy nut thinking? Not so fast my friend: http://www.presseurop.eu/en/content/news-brief/3696611-what-...

Gladio is a very interesting topic! Especially since a BND (Bundesnachrichtendienst) group appears to have to been involved in the Münchener Oktoberfest-Bombings from 1980 killing 21 people.

I think both events are related. http://www.sueddeutsche.de/muenchen/anschlag-auf-das-oktober...

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#233

Post by sigkill »

kriro wrote: post #163
ojii wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can easily boycott the government without getting locked up: move to another country!

For US citizens it is really hard to get rid of their citizenship. And you pretty much have to pay US taxes as long as you are a citizen no matter where you live (and thus implicitly support the government).

>For US citizens it is really hard to get rid of their citizenship

Not sure about that. I've heard that you just need to go the embassy and you can get rid of it quite easily. However getting citizenship of another country may be a bit difficult for anyone in these times. You don't really want to remain stateless right?

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#234

Post by jneal »

robomartin wrote: post #72

I hate to use this tone but, so be it. Maybe now you morons who continue to vote in the pieces of shit into our government who are bent on taking more and more power for themselves will wake up and figure it out? How much more proof do you need? Does this make you angry yet or is Obama still your diety? Oh, and Republicans don't get a pass either. The point is that all of you morons voting like robots along party lin…

Vote Republican: Patriot act created Vote Democratic: Patriot act abused

I'm not sure where this leaves us, which is worse?

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#235

Post by foobarqux »

jl6 wrote: post #158
adventured wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comatose is a good description. It's worth noting that those things you list are masks. Americans over-eat, abuse prescription drugs, etc. to hide from, effectively, the last 40 years (and what it has led to). The US standard of living has fallen massively since 1970. In the late 1960s our minimum wage was the equivalent of nearly $50,000 in today's dollars. But you're wrong, the average American isn't stupid. You cl…

Do you have a citation showing a fall in standard of living since 1970?

Elizabeth Warren's research would be a good place to start.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akVL7QY0S8A#t=8m25s

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#236

Post by [deleted] »

jl6 wrote: post #158
adventured wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comatose is a good description. It's worth noting that those things you list are masks. Americans over-eat, abuse prescription drugs, etc. to hide from, effectively, the last 40 years (and what it has led to). The US standard of living has fallen massively since 1970. In the late 1960s our minimum wage was the equivalent of nearly $50,000 in today's dollars. But you're wrong, the average American isn't stupid. You cl…

Do you have a citation showing a fall in standard of living since 1970?

[deleted]

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#237

Post by bilbo0s »

robomartin wrote: post #72

I hate to use this tone but, so be it. Maybe now you morons who continue to vote in the pieces of shit into our government who are bent on taking more and more power for themselves will wake up and figure it out? How much more proof do you need? Does this make you angry yet or is Obama still your diety? Oh, and Republicans don't get a pass either. The point is that all of you morons voting like robots along party lin…

"...When are you going to understand that a conservative Libertarian (as opposed to extreme and nearly anarchist) approach is the only path to recovery?..."

I think this is the issue in a nutshell. Partisanship. Even people who do not like the Demopublicans... are 'partisan'. I know it was probably not intended, but your post provides illustration of the issue by way of example. I'd wager you, like the average Democrat and Republican, would vote for whoever towed your party line. And this vote comes regardless of whether or not the party line is good for the US. If a given policy is good for the US, then great! But this is not a necessity to gain your support... it is incidental.

The important thing for Partisans is not continuous improvement, but continuous compliance. It's far more important to a Partisan that we do things 'their way', than it is for us to improve ourselves.

We need to move away from Partisanship toward an environment where each issue is judged on its merits. Without regard to preconceived grand ideas that underlie some Party's philosophy on the 'right way to do things'. This is the only way we will get the continuous improvement we are looking for. By abandoning the, sort of, 'sacred cow', ideas that have gripped the nation's political discourse on every front.

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#238

Post by [deleted] »

adventured wrote: post #81
xiphias wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get away from the USD that American government is using to keep it's power. Get away from the banking system. Buy physical silver, gold (not ETF) or bitcoins. The earlier everybody starts doing it the sooner the inevitable USD crash will happen.

The USD implosion will bring down the US Government, and it will end the unsustainable spending spree that pays for our expanding police state (and the NSA's Utah datacenter). There isn't much time left on the clock. I'd say the Fed has less than 12 to 24 months before the next disaster hits, given the way the real estate and stock market bubbles have already been re-inflated. They won't be able to control rates much…

[deleted]

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#239

Post by sigkill »

adventured wrote: post #81
xiphias wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get away from the USD that American government is using to keep it's power. Get away from the banking system. Buy physical silver, gold (not ETF) or bitcoins. The earlier everybody starts doing it the sooner the inevitable USD crash will happen.

The USD implosion will bring down the US Government, and it will end the unsustainable spending spree that pays for our expanding police state (and the NSA's Utah datacenter). There isn't much time left on the clock. I'd say the Fed has less than 12 to 24 months before the next disaster hits, given the way the real estate and stock market bubbles have already been re-inflated. They won't be able to control rates much…

I'm not sure about your timeline though. I think there will be an 'escape' condition, like another war or something to distract the people from the real issue. It might take well over 3-4 years.

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#240

Post by crusso »

rlx0x wrote: post #198
robomartin wrote: post #72

I hate to use this tone but, so be it. Maybe now you morons who continue to vote in the pieces of shit into our government who are bent on taking more and more power for themselves will wake up and figure it out? How much more proof do you need? Does this make you angry yet or is Obama still your diety? Oh, and Republicans don't get a pass either. The point is that all of you morons voting like robots along party lin…

Thats great, lets minimize government, lets privatize schools, police, prison, the fire department and everything else! "Ultra limited government" for the future! Lets deregulate everything, because you know you can trust Corporations! The part you need to realize is, there already are on their way to your utopia. The point is, that you need a strong military, police and surveillance state in order to make the transi…

Name the corporation that has the self-given legal right to take ALL our data and store in insecurely.

Name the corporation that has the right to spy on us, and even when caught doing it contrary to the law, no one goes to jail over it.

Name the corporation that when it runs out of money on its stupid ideas just prints more or can raise its prices indefinitely and FORCE you to buy however much of its products that it wants you to.

Name the corporation that has the authority to break into your house in the middle of the night, shoot your dog, put a boot on your throat, then say, "Sorry we had the wrong house" ... with little or no negative consequences for their mistake.

Name the corporation that can sick its money collectors on you for disagreeing with them and then they'll audit your income over and over to make your existence miserable.

Name the corporate agents who have the legal right to manipulate the markets with the creation of new laws and bureaucracies and then can use that knowledge to do as much insider trading as they want to enrich themselves... and it's all legal.

Name the corporation that has the means and the authority take away your house, your children, your very life, and I'll be right there with you.

Until then, I'm going to go ahead and keep pushing against the government that has ALL of the powers mentioned above and that abuses those powers on a daily basis.

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