231–240 of 519 posts
Him and his wife were caught in the midst of a riot and teargassed. They saw tons of public urination and most of the protestors are 25 or younger and drunk + smashing beer glasses all over...
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Yet a democratically-elected government made a decision in the name of the people to replace this park with a shopping mall. People protesting against that by blocking the construction process (i.e. stand in front of bulldozers etc.) are effectively overturning democracy in order to protect their personal interests. This is a general problem I have with such active counter-protests, be they to stop a station from bei…
> People protesting against that by blocking the construction process I think this is serious misunderstanding of what is now going on in Turkey. The 'mall in park' thing was just a trigger. I understand that you are somehow comparing this to Stuttgart protests but from what I read about it I think this is totally different situation. Example: I was born in a country occupied by Russians. And there were some protests…
> This is disgusting, the "right" to profit/property is the least important thing, it should never trump people's well-being or the environment.
which I interpreted as just that.
[0] Whether that ‘more’ is better is, given the levels of violence, rather subjective.
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I don't think they saw him though. And the shield hopefully saved him.
I looked at the video again. If you look it in slow motion, you can see that there is another man crouching in the back. Although the man in the front might not be visible to the tank driver, the one behind should be and has no shield. Also, just before the impact the tank fires the water cannon in the exact direction of the two. Might be a coincidence or a proof they saw them. But even in the event they did not see…
There is slow motion on youtube?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yet a democratically-elected government made a decision in the name of the people to replace this park with a shopping mall. People protesting against that by blocking the construction process (i.e. stand in front of bulldozers etc.) are effectively overturning democracy in order to protect their personal interests. This is a general problem I have with such active counter-protests, be they to stop a station from bei…
It's hard to call this a democratic government given that they control the press and the corruption. Do you really think the people wanted the park to be turned into a shopping mall, or is perhaps a better explanation that a handful of rich people with political connections wanted that?
I really don’t know. One of the confusing (to me) things here is that Erdogan, i.e. the prime minister of the whole of Turkey, appears to control both whether the mall is being built and the local police force, or, in other words, apparently the whole country (as opposed to a local district) can decide on whether to build a mall in some place or not.
And then I wouldn’t be surprised if a majority of the rural and likely conservative population of Turkey actually wants to move into what they think is the 21st century.
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> protesting something I call "Singaporification." I love how people always cast Singapore as some kind of horror story cautionary tale. No-one seems to have told the actual people of Singapore, who are perfectly free to leave their nightmarish dystopia at any time, and yet seem perversely inclined to stay. Somehow this obvious, central, crucial fact gets left out of the "we don't want to turn out like Singapore!" na…
I honestly don't understand your criticism here. The entire point of the post was that Singapore is a great place to live as long as you do not try to exercise a political freedom. Singaporeans (or at least the ones who are left) happen to be willing to accept less freedoms in exchange for economic success, but it doesn't take an especially libertarian mindset to decide that you'd rather prize political freedom over…
I'm not arguing with that. What I'm trying to say is that I don't think it has been conclusively proved that being able to exercise that freedom leads to a better society, and it is that end we should be thinking about, not the means.
> decide that you'd rather prize political freedom over wealth
Long term, if political freedom doesn't bring wealth, then what is the bloody point?
"Well, the company didn't make any profits, can't pay its bills and the building is falling down around it, but at least the workers all had a say!"
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You entirely miss the point. He's holding up Singapore as a shining example of the end-state of affairs that the government of Turkey is trying to emulate. Since we don't have a word for it yet, or we haven't learned it, we're saying "Singaporification" as a placeholder. People might have said "Nazification" before the word "fascism" was well defined.
> He's holding up Singapore as a shining example of the end-state of affairs that the government of Turkey is trying to emulate. > I find Singapore to be the scariest dystopia in the world today. What? Anyway, Singapore is the greenest city on earth. It'll be more likely to see people here protesting the demolition of a shopping mall to build a park than vice versa. It's ridiculous to compare this to what is happenin…
The quintissential idea of a dystopia is that it's a safe place to live, the streets are clean, you have jobs and food and security. As long as you stay in the lines put in place by the State you're fine.
But women can only wear skirts 2 inches below the knee. Lipstick must be color 22 or 46. Men cannot have beards. Or you must have a beard. You must wear a tie to work, even if you collect garbage. The news going to report what it's told to report, not necessarily whats happening in front of everyone. Photos can and will be edited to reflect the proper history that should exist. God help you if your faith is the minority and says you must not cut your hair. When you leave your shiny office with your coworkers for lunch, remember not to leave in groups larger than 4 because its against the law.
So I am not saying my specific examples happen in Singapore. But you don't seem to get that we aren't really talking about Singapore.
We're talking about dystopian ways of living that exist on earth, right now. We're talking about people with lots of money actively trying to make stuff like what I just said part of your life, right now. It never happens over night. It's one day at a time. One accident, one criminal act. One new camera on a street, one new law passed.
So slowly, so you feel safer, until one day you see something happening around you that you don't like and decide to speak up. No one sees you at work tomorrow or the next day. You and your wife and kids just disappeared one night. No one saw anything, even if they did. In a week, a new family moves into your nice modern apartment. Someone else gets your cushy job. No one talks about you. They feel safe, too.
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> protesting something I call "Singaporification." I love how people always cast Singapore as some kind of horror story cautionary tale. No-one seems to have told the actual people of Singapore, who are perfectly free to leave their nightmarish dystopia at any time, and yet seem perversely inclined to stay. Somehow this obvious, central, crucial fact gets left out of the "we don't want to turn out like Singapore!" na…
I honestly don't understand your criticism here. The entire point of the post was that Singapore is a great place to live as long as you do not try to exercise a political freedom. Singaporeans (or at least the ones who are left) happen to be willing to accept less freedoms in exchange for economic success, but it doesn't take an especially libertarian mindset to decide that you'd rather prize political freedom over…
This is not true. His exact words were "I find Singapore to be the scariest dystopia in the world today".
> Singaporeans (or at least the ones who are left) happen to be willing to accept less freedoms in exchange for economic success
This is bullshit. What a sweeping generalisation to make of all the citizens of a country.
> willing to accept less freedoms
What are these "less freedoms" exactly?
> in exchange for economic success
At least the original comment also conceded "low crime, clean streets, and a wonderfully healthy economy"
CNN STORY (with images): http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/02/world/europe/turkey-protests/i... It's now a full blown anti-government riot. The park issue was just the last straw that set it off. The original poster was telling the truth now stop arguing about shopping malls.
When I see stories like this, I'm always impressed at the wide availability of gas masks. Are we even allowed to own those in the States?* *Yes, I know how sad of a question that is.
> The military has been handing out gas masks to civilians and there is a video of then getting into verbal arguments with the police. Although the gendarme look as if they are in with the government the majority of the military look as if they're going to sit this one out while quietly supporting the protests.
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Have you read his comment? Read it again. You can certainly disagree with his point but when you ask "what does it have to do with Singapore?" you are showing that you either haven't read it or English is not your first language (it isn't for me) and you just couldn't understand it (not worries then, I know how that feels some times).
Reading it 10 more times won't change anything. Yes English is my first language (so what?). I understand perfectly the words but the attempts to draw parallels with Singapore makes absolutely no sense.
What bubble are you living in because it desperately needs to be popped.
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> He's holding up Singapore as a shining example of the end-state of affairs that the government of Turkey is trying to emulate. > I find Singapore to be the scariest dystopia in the world today. What? Anyway, Singapore is the greenest city on earth. It'll be more likely to see people here protesting the demolition of a shopping mall to build a park than vice versa. It's ridiculous to compare this to what is happenin…
You really have no clue what's going on, do you? I'm honestly not trying to be rude. It's just that you come across as entirely missing the guy in the gorilla suit in the middle of the basketball game. The quintissential idea of a dystopia is that it's a safe place to live, the streets are clean, you have jobs and food and security. As long as you stay in the lines put in place by the State you're fine. But women can…
You are right, I have no idea what this has to do with Singapore at all!
And if we aren't talking about Singapore why do we keep saying Singapore?!
