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Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

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Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#231

Post by regis »

pessimizer wrote: post #184
regis wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I am aware of that, but that doesn't mean that there aren't also people who don't want to work. I would love to not work and just enjoy life while I can, but I can't because I have bought into this idea that having extra money for shelter, food and other junk makes life more enjoyable... some people haven't bought into this that are struggling to enjoy their lives outside of the crazy whirlwind of packaged desir…

You're projecting your desires for a bit of freedom from the rat-race onto the homeless.

Perhaps a bit, but these comments are also based on real conversations with homeless people in SF.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#232

Post by tobinfricke »

tokenadult wrote: post #181
tobinfricke wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having moved from the U.S. to northern Germany, I have to say: the difference is shocking. Here, mentally unstable homeless people are not a daily sight on the city streets. In fact, I have seen only one San Francisco-style lunatic: and he was, indeed, raving in English. Saying that "United States social policy is [not] a model for anywhere" must be an understatement. I would ask: what social policy? Any aid from the…

Having moved from the U.S. to northern Germany I'd really love to learn about what is actually done in Europe. Where is a "mentally unstable" person to be found in Germany? If a "San Francisco-style lunatic" (like the one you saw in public in Germany) is encountered out in public in Germany, where is he put? P.S. I have adequate reading knowledge of German to be able to read German-language links about what is done f…

Here's one example, from the city where I live: http://www.hw-hannover.de/

This is a state-sponsored program that provides housing and work for people with disabilities (I believe this includes or perhaps even mostly refers to mild mental disabilities, but I'm not sure). They operate a restaurant, a hotel, a bicycle workshop, landscaping service, mail delivery, and a bunch of other things.

Mission statement (translated): "Our central task is to create opportunities so that people with disabilities can develop personally and professionally. We ensure this through individually tailored offers in the areas of employment, housing and food. For people - by people!"

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#233

Post by nisa »

dusklight wrote: post #206
nisa wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See you on the other side of this discussion if you loose your wealth and your job for whatever reasons. You'll enjoy beeing jugded by your own words. Empathy and social justice are crucial for any society that wants to be respected. You are proposing barbary. Social Darwinism.

How is he being barbaric by proposing that prospective parents should reconsider having children if they don't think their children will be able to have a happy life?

I've saw the post in the context of homelessness that is discussed in the article. I also don't share his woldview maybe I understood it in a wrong way but "The world simply doesn't need many of the people born into it." came across as justification for letting these people living miserable lives and deny them basic rights, like shelter and health care.

The problem with such thinking is that it's often not up to us to decide if we are needed in this world or not. And it is also more often than not up to us if we have the energy and power to earn a wage that allows us sustaining our existence.

My impression is that there is a general consensus that every human beeing has some basic rights (U.N. Declaration of Human Rights) and that we as a society should work to provide these rights for everyone even if we have to sacrify some personal profit for it. Because it can also happen to us.

Op's post came across as If he does not share this views. I'd say if you deny basic human rights I can call you barbaric.

There is a difference between saying it's not a good idea to get children if you are in a bad economic situation or saying that it's correct that these children suffer homelessness because their parents made a bad decision or are somehow not fit enough to procreate. If you start to talk about fitness (here indirectly measured as ability to earn money) as an indication who should procreate you have a form of social darwinism. And there are a lot of problems with such a thinking.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#235

Post by orangethirty »

stuaxo wrote: post #229
orangethirty wrote: post #120

What are tech companies doing to improve the area? And when I say improve, I mean helping those who need it most.

Too busy making "beautiful" interfaces, "disrupting" business, "changing the world" etc etc ad infinitum.

No one helps out? That's a shame. You can't build products for people who can't buy them.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#236

Post by tobinfricke »

digitalWestie wrote: post #220
tokenadult wrote: post #162

Places with good weather have huge visible homeless populations. (I have traveled all over the United States, and have been to all fifty states. AFTER EDIT: I have been in, and have lived in, gritty "skid row" neighborhoods of large United States cities, and have lived in Los Angeles.) Places with lousy weather, like the place where I grew up and now live, certainly have people who are "homeless" in the sense of not…

I think a few things mainly answer your question about Europe: - More social housing than the US - Higher minimum wages (so fewer homeless) - This is just a personal impression but Europeans are less mobile than Americans. Therefore there is more likely to be the family / friends safety net to catch you.

And health care that's not tied to your employer.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#237

Post by eli_gottlieb »

ardit33 wrote: post #132
MarkPNeyer wrote: post #84

i worked at uber and twilio in the city. I was so bothered by the homeless people I saw everyday that it seriously impeded my work performance. i'd walk by them and feel terrible for not being able to help, for having an easy time making money, and feel afraid that my bipolar disorder would get worse and i'd end up like them. it was hard to function properly at work when I'd start my day feeling guilty, powerless and…

How old are you? I used to have the same existential feelings as well when I moved in SF, but over time you just get used to it and don't care anymore. It is part of the maturation process and realize that the world is not a fair place, and no not everybody is equal and will live equally. One thing you realize is that a lot of the people on the streets have major mental conditions (usually schizophrenia, and major dr…

How old are you? I used to have the same existential feelings as well when I moved in SF, but over time you just get used to it and don't care anymore. It is part of the maturation process and realize that the world is not a fair place, and no not everybody is equal and will live equally.

I am appalled that you actually believe this. I mean, ok, the world is not by default a fair place, but the notion of simply ignoring the moral duty to make it so... Ick.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#238

Post by fasouto »

pionar wrote: post #195
ims wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the rest of the Western world, like it or not, is able to spend less on defense precisely because -- thanks to some unique events in the 20th century -- the US is effectively providing a defense subsidy for all of its allies. I'm not advocating, just saying. Perhaps European countries would have to spend more if the US did not concern itself with the rest of the world? Food for thought.

This. Also, if you live anywhere and think your taxes don't go to defense spending, you're delusional.

Obviously. Every country in the world spend money in defense, the difference is the percentage of the GDP spent.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#239

Post by nisa »

throwit1979 wrote: post #226
nisa wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all have to deal with reality. The question is how we want to shape our societies and reality. Is it acceptable to have few lucky ones with huge incomes that are far beyond the necassary amount for living a fullfilled live and have the rest die on the streets? Or would it be more beneficial for the society at large if all have the possibility to live free from existential dangers such as homelessness, disease and…

If you discard huge parts of the population as worthless you'll have to invest even more in your security. You will have slums, riots, terrorism and violence and walled gardens. OP is offering a possible partial solution to exactly the problem you present here. With fewer children born into poverty, some degree of abatement is likely. I'm not sure why you dismiss the notion out of hand, refuse to engage the actual id…

I've explained myself in more detail here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5707453

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#240

Post by madaxe »

tracker1 wrote: post #126
madaxe wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a recent timescale, there was a multi-billion dollar bailout of failed institutions. It was pretty big news. Most of the banking sector would have gone bust without it, which would, as happened in Iceland, have left verdant territory for a new breed to spring up in. In a more general scale, the entire banking sector is propped up by protectionist policies that allow: > Fractional lending (this is called reserve ba…

Can't speak for anyone else, but I'd have rather taken Iceland's approach and let them fail... their assets would have been redistributed and bought out, and things would have probably recovered much faster, though a harder short term. Which may well have been better than what seems to be a long drawn out recovery. I'm also against a lot of the subsidies that are out there.. if we really want available food for the p…

Oh man, agricultural subsidies. Farm bills in the US, CAP in the EU. They're criminal, and socialist in form and nature. They're designed to protect the livelihood of farmers who wouldn't be otherwise economically productive and would fail in the face of labour from other regions which are cheaper, in other countries. This not only impedes development, but results in people selling subsidies to one another, buying agricultural land en masse in order to claim vast subsidies to grow nothing (see Tate & Lyle in the UK - over £1bn a year), and vast amounts of food being burned and buried because it exceeds quota. This is positively insane, even though the rationale (price control - equally insane) makes sense in an obtuse protectionist sort of fashion. Some farmers will fail. Others will prosper. Food won't magically disappear overnight and leave us all starving.

Competition is essential, but so is cooperation. Again, though, you need the rule of law to set universal finite bounds on both phenomena, otherwise you end up with cancer in your soda and PMCs in your back yard, even more than already happens in the US.

I suppose that at least we live in interesting times.

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