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The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

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Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#231

Post by eigenspace »

ericmay wrote: post #70
cwillu wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're going to talk about canadian dairy tariffs, please note that (a) this was originally negotiated by trump the last time he was in office, and (b) the tariff only applies when the total imports exceed a limit, which iirc has never actually been exceeded.

Someone else shared this article [1] and I was reading a quote I thought was interesting: “[Canada] has a large dairy producing constituency that it wants to protect, so they put a cap on imports that can be accessed at a competitive rate. That's what we call a ‘TRQ’ (tariff rate quota),” says Becky Rasdall Vargas, senior vice president of trade and workforce policy at the International Dairy Foods Association. Under…

So, here is one of the major problems with having a US administration run by liars, crooks, and bullies: your arguments lose all credibility.

I'm a Canadian who is pretty unhappy with our protectionist dairy lobby, and thinks there probably is a bunch of unfair trade barriers erected on our side by the dairy lobby.

I'm probably more open to this line of argument than the majority of Canadians. However, when I see an American who has literally anything to do with their federal government start making these arguments, I more or less have to assume it's either a lie, or at best a truth that's going to be twisted, blown out of proportion, and used to undermine the sovereignty of my country.

The furthest I would go right now would be to support a relaxation of our dairy protections in dialogue with the EU, and then whatever scheme we arrive at can then be applied to trade with the USA at a later date (including requiring dairy imported from the USA to meet EU-level food safety standards).

The USA simply cannot be trusted to be anything like good-faith negotiators.

Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#232

Post by longitudinal93 »

Throaway826 wrote: post #84
ericmay wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone else shared this article [1] and I was reading a quote I thought was interesting: “[Canada] has a large dairy producing constituency that it wants to protect, so they put a cap on imports that can be accessed at a competitive rate. That's what we call a ‘TRQ’ (tariff rate quota),” says Becky Rasdall Vargas, senior vice president of trade and workforce policy at the International Dairy Foods Association. Under…

The main reason the Dairy Supply quota is in place is to stop US dairy producers from dumping dairy into Canada. That's why the USA has never reached the tarriff limit. The big producers there would just dump 20 million litres at once if they could. They aren't interested in 1 or two. And if they were able to do that, the Canadian producers would go under. So its kinda simple, the Dairy Supply system is there to prot…

It should also be noted that Canada does not permit dairy products produced with Bovine Growth Hormone, which makes our industry less competitive that American where the practice is widespread.

Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#233

Post by ericmay »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #221
wahern wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "If the United States had not helped us, we would not have won the war. One-on-one against Hitler's Germany, we would not have withstood its onslaught and would have lost the war. No one talks about this officially, and Stalin never, I think, left any written traces of his opinion, but I can say that he expressed this view l several times in conversations with me." > - Nikita Khrushchev, political commissar oversee…

fair points, but it still doesn't add up to "the USA beat Germany" or even "the anglosphere beat Germany". The Soviets beat Germany and we helped.

I wrote that the Anglosphere liberated Western Europe, I didn’t write that the USA beat Germany nor did I write that the Anglosphere beat Germany. I chose those words carefully precisely because to say “they beat Germany” while true in some ways would be misleading and would discredit the Soviet’s contributions.

With that being said, the Soviets allied with Germany to help kick this whole thing off, so while yea maybe they get credit for not losing to Germany they also reaped what they sowed.

Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#234

Post by stasomatic »

theropost wrote: post #41
ericmay wrote: post #6

> And Canada is taxing you back This seems illogical. You can't simultaneously claim that the US is paying higher prices for Canadian goods because of US-imposed tariffs and then turn around and say only that Americans are paying a tax on buying Canadian goods on Canadian-imposed tariffs. Both countries are either paying higher prices or paying higher taxes. Canada's tariffs must also be viewed as America is taxing C…

It's really not that complicated imo... So what do you do when your government is effectively bankrupt? You’ve accumulated more debt than you can realistically repay without imposing enormous economic pain, but you still need to keep the country functioning. One historical answer is an inflationary cycle combined with a trade war. You impose tariffs on foreign goods, which creates government revenue while also making…

Hey, thanks for this comment. You seem to be knowledgeable about the topic and I am a moron.

What happens to consumer spending and associated tax revenue when imported goods cost significantly more? Let's take a hypothetical German auto brand that has no factories in the US (BMW, MB, VW have factories, not sure if Audi and Porsche are grandfathered in because of VW).

If a car that cost $100K before and now is $125K, it seems that the demographic that could afford that $100K will shrug and pay the higher price. Now, that's the well-off folks, a bit immune in this economy.

What other consumer goods with imposed new tariffs will cause less spending and shrink the economy instead? It seems that tariffs are a net loss, besides I guess in cases when they are used to prevent dumping.

Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#235

Post by ericmay »

dinfinity wrote: post #228
ericmay wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That is a very black and white view of the world. > The USA has proven to be highly volatile, highly unreliable, and highly unreasonable. Right, black and white haha. Well if we are highly volatile, highly unreliable, and highly unreasonable why would we do anything besides whatever we decide to do? Can’t trust us, can’t reason with us, and can’t rely on us. In that case, who gives a shit about alliances with Europ…

> Right, black and white haha. Well if we are highly volatile, highly unreliable, and highly unreasonable why would we do anything besides whatever we decide to do? Can’t trust us, can’t reason with us, and can’t rely on us. In that case, who gives a shit about alliances with Europe? So, what's the plan? The USA imperialistically conquers land of former allies and rules the world forever with force? All countries are…

shrug

If people feel that way then there’s no reason to do anything besides whatever we want. We are untrustworthy, unreliable, highly volatile (anything else we should add?) and every Canadian/European is proudly chanting death to America. At that point, who cares?

It reminds me of those abusive relationships where some girl (EU/Canada) hates the boyfriend (America) but keeps coming back to him despite all these flaws. You’re untrustworthy! You’re bad! And then you just keep hanging around because deep down you know you need us. That’s why you have to keep saying the same thing over and over again - you need us and want us to act in a way that best suits your interests.

Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#236

Post by ericmay »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #192
ericmay wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they can be repaired. The OP claimed: > Other administrations will not be able to repair the damage So if you disagree with them you should reply to them and let them know the damage can be repaired.

Again, we're talking about different things. What the OP understands "repair the damage" to mean, which I know because I've seen the expectation myself in the wild, is that the next administration can restore the 2024 status quo by just going on a really compelling apology tour. I don't think that's likely; we're still going to see Canadians boycotting random consumer goods, Europeans demanding that everyone should m…

Their lack of specificity does not invalidate my comment.

> and countries in general being a lot less willing to negotiate for trade agreements the Americans can't credibly promise to keep.

We have a lot of trade deals and have created new ones while Trump has been in office. Countries have willingly negotiated with us and us with them. What you are writing is ideological wishful thinking, not what is reflected in reality.

Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#237

Post by ben_w »

newsclues wrote: post #169
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Canada is very unfortunately caught in the trade war between the USA and China Ottawa is fighting Anchluss . The MAGA wing is entirely serious about annexing Canada. Carney, for a change, is right. Canada is being attacked.

Canada is being attacked because it has become a (willing?) pawn for the CCP. Ukraine was used as a pawn to anger Russia. What did Russia try to do and continue to do so? Canada has been used as a pawn to threaten America by China, and Canada is trying to pivot from the USA to China?

> Ukraine was used as a pawn to anger Russia. What did Russia try to do and continue to do so?

Ukraine is a sovereign country, free to decide for themselves which military and economic bloc best suits them.

Russia rolled tanks into Ukraine after denying they were planning to attack, airdropped special forces into Kyiv after denying they were planning to attack, repeatedly threatened the use of nuclear weapons even though they're not willing to admit to being at war and Ukraine doesn't have nukes, tried to assassinate then candidate-PM Yushchenko in 2004, annexed Crimea, committed a bunch of warcrimes while doing so, and they did all this even though Ukraine only gave up its nuclear arsenal under the condition that its sovereignty would be respected.

> Canada has been used as a pawn to threaten America by China, and Canada is trying to pivot from the USA to China?

Canada's primary pivot is away from the USA, not towards China, e.g. Canada also deepening ties with the EU.

Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#238

Post by ericmay »

bdangubic wrote: post #230
ericmay wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, in that case I’d say our version of Democracy is just the better one and European democracies are just one step away from Russia/China and are very unstable and unrepresented in comparison to the US because of the EU. We have only 720 members of the EU parliament representing over 600 million people. In the US we have more people representing fewer people, ergo we are more representative. How is the president o…

EU is not a country :)

I didn’t claim that it was n_n

Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#239

Post by ericmay »

tensor wrote: post #213
ericmay wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, and then the US can get everything it needs from non Canadian or EU sources, and then we can just get maybe lay a little more or find alternative sources where needed. > Also no, Canada and the EU do not generally do a lot of trade with brutal dictatorships, Still do trade though, even with Russia. Hell, the EU still lets in Russian tourists, hosts their billionaires, and their children. The EU trades massively w…

> The EU trades massively with Russia, buys oil and other products from the Middle East, and more. "In 2025, Russia was the EU's 19th largest trade partner, representing 1.1% of the EU’s total trade in goods with the world." - https://policy.trade.ec.europa.eu/eu-trade-relationships-cou... A whole 1.1% of their trade is with Russia. A "massive amount." I'll leave this fact here for others. I'm done responding to your…

> A whole 1.1% of their trade is with Russia. A "massive amount." I'll leave this fact here for others.

I want the US to step up and end the war in Ukraine and kick Russia out, including US forces on the ground in Ukraine. Yea - tell me I’m “pro-Russia”.

You’re right though about the numbers. My framing was wrong because I meant to write China, not Russia there. China is also a brutal dictatorship like Russia and Iran for example.

But 1% is still nothing to sneeze at given that in addition to still buying oil/gas from Russia the EU hosts the oligarchs and families of Russian oligarchs within Europe.

> I'm done responding to your disinformation and pro-Russian propaganda efforts.

Every accusation is a confession.

Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#240

Post by ericmay »

jleyank wrote: post #174
ericmay wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, and then the US can get everything it needs from non Canadian or EU sources, and then we can just get maybe lay a little more or find alternative sources where needed. > Also no, Canada and the EU do not generally do a lot of trade with brutal dictatorships, Still do trade though, even with Russia. Hell, the EU still lets in Russian tourists, hosts their billionaires, and their children. The EU trades massively w…

The us is closer to a dictatorship than at any time in the recent past. Ruling by executive order is rather close to ruling by decree and neither congress or the scotus care.

Then that has been the case at least since the Obama years. There is a lot of truth in the failure of Congress and how it has abdicated its power to the Executive and Judicial branches but to say we are closer to a dictatorship than at any time in the recent past is like saying on a scale of 0-100 where 100 is a dictatorship we’ve moved from like a 4 to a 5.
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