Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes these are all very, very complex applications though. But I agree: using more memory is good, actually, because it means more stuff is being cached. Nautilus is probably pre-indexing directory structure so it doesn't have to read disk every single time you open your home folder. That's good. Oh, and thumbnails. Thumbnails are incredibly expensive memory wise, but very useful! Also modern apps have A LOT built-in.…
Counterpoint: Nautilus is both slower and less stable than Windows Explorer on large folders, even though the Linux filesystem is much faster. These super-indexed desktop linux search functions are also dog slow, while `grep` and `find` in the terminal are much faster (for searching inside files), and those certainly don't cache anything.
Windows 11's built-in Weather app wastes more than 1 GB of RAM
231–240 of 621 posts
Re: Windows 11's built-in Weather app wastes more than 1 GB of RAM
#232This article seems to be underestimating how much RAM a weather app should take. A well thought-out, native Weather app wouldn't take more than 100 mb of RAM.
You don't need anything more than https://wttr.in/ even with all the fancy terminal graphics.
Re: Windows 11's built-in Weather app wastes more than 1 GB of RAM
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you guys on HN can be a bit out of touch maybe? On my linux machine (measured with tux-manager): nautilus 177 MB kitty 150 MB alacritty 107 MB mpv --idle --force-window 160 MB winit empty window + OpenGL context 100 MB tux-manager 69 MB hexchat 55 MB gnome-terminal 47 MB st 12 MB xterm 12 MB All these apps are what you would consider native, good apps. Written with Qt, GTK, some in low level langs like C\C++,…
Yes these are all very, very complex applications though. But I agree: using more memory is good, actually, because it means more stuff is being cached. Nautilus is probably pre-indexing directory structure so it doesn't have to read disk every single time you open your home folder. That's good. Oh, and thumbnails. Thumbnails are incredibly expensive memory wise, but very useful! Also modern apps have A LOT built-in.…
No it isn't good, and no it probably doesn't because it is kernel's job. I'd rather they don't do double caching, and it's actually worse if they do.
Re: Windows 11's built-in Weather app wastes more than 1 GB of RAM
#234Re: Windows 11's built-in Weather app wastes more than 1 GB of RAM
#235Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pictures and frame buffers. If you're running fullscreen at 4k, you're probably gonna take two roughly 3840x2160x3 byte frame buffers for the window. Your designers want a background image which moves as you scroll in some parallax style; that's over 3840x2160x3 bytes more for the pixel buffer backing the image layer. And let's say roughly 50% of your screen is text with subpixel (aka full color) anti aliasing; that…
??? Fast and loose is an understatement, at best it's a view from a rendering engineer that thinks all software acquires a DXGI swap chain and handles buffering itself, but it's flat out wrong and over two times too high at the very least. * Not every app is full screen (especially not a weather widget.) * Very few people actually have a 4K display. 1080p and 1440p cover over 75% of users already. * You do not alloca…
* Not every app is fullscreen, but I was using a maximized app as an example. If you make the window smaller then yeah obviously the numbers get smaller proportionally.
* A ton of people have 4k displays, it's difficult to find a moderately high end laptop without a 4k display these days. In any case, that was the hypothetical example I used.
* If you have a window that's roughly 4k resolution, and you want a background picture which fills the entire window, that's gonna be a roughly 4k resolution pixel buffer (unless you stretch a smaller image, but that looks ugly).
* Depends on the text renderer. I have mainly used pangocairo, which is based around CPU rendering text to a pixel buffer. I know that this is the typical recommendation for handling high quality rendering of longer pieces of text with Canvas on the web too. Maybe a typical win32 app actually does render each glyph fresh every frame from a font atlas, I'm not familiar with Windows APIs specifically. I apologise for the inaccuracy if that's the case.
* I'm pretty sure you're wrong here? If DWM has only one buffer which all windows share, how does it handle the case where a partially obscured window goes unresponsive for a bit as the user removes what obscures it? In old school non-composited X11, the answer is that the X server paints in the newly revealed area with grey pixels and asks the window's process to re-render that region, causing a lingering grey region if the app is frozen. Preeeetty sure that Windows 11 doesn't do that. But do you have documentation on this?
Re: Windows 11's built-in Weather app wastes more than 1 GB of RAM
#236Earlier quoted context omitted.
10 MB is ridiculously overbloated. 1 MB or something in that vicinity should be more like it.
I think you guys on HN can be a bit out of touch maybe? On my linux machine (measured with tux-manager): nautilus 177 MB kitty 150 MB alacritty 107 MB mpv --idle --force-window 160 MB winit empty window + OpenGL context 100 MB tux-manager 69 MB hexchat 55 MB gnome-terminal 47 MB st 12 MB xterm 12 MB All these apps are what you would consider native, good apps. Written with Qt, GTK, some in low level langs like C\C++,…
That's still a HUGE amount when you remember mplayer (which mpv was based on) ran on PCs that has had less RAM than that.
Re: Windows 11's built-in Weather app wastes more than 1 GB of RAM
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you guys on HN can be a bit out of touch maybe? On my linux machine (measured with tux-manager): nautilus 177 MB kitty 150 MB alacritty 107 MB mpv --idle --force-window 160 MB winit empty window + OpenGL context 100 MB tux-manager 69 MB hexchat 55 MB gnome-terminal 47 MB st 12 MB xterm 12 MB All these apps are what you would consider native, good apps. Written with Qt, GTK, some in low level langs like C\C++,…
These apps have codebases going back to the 2000s when having 256MB ram total was a big deal, yet these apps could contend with that (while offering pretty much identical functionality). I remember one of the big arguments for GTK against Qt was that C++ relied heavily on templates, thus every C++ app would have their own copies of the same functions in RAM, while GTK was C, and a lot of those library pages could be…
A fresh boot of my Windows 98 install at the time, once everything was loaded and settled, used up 27 MB of RAM, meaning that after 5 MB of allocations someone was getting paged out somewhere. That extra 16 MB made a world of difference.
Do bear in mind, though, that we're dealing with a lot more than we were back then. Our hardware is more complex, with more and more complex drivers needed to manage more things. Accessibility is different, screens are larger (my monitor now has 27 times the pixels as my monitor then) meaning more memory required for larger textures which are now composited in hardware rather than re-rendered every frame.
I agree with others that things are ridiculous these days, but it's also easy to see that our expectations also need to adjust somewhat. Still, using a webview for displaying the weather... I get why they do it, but it's a scourge. It's emblematic of their care for the customer, which is nonexistent.
Re: Windows 11's built-in Weather app wastes more than 1 GB of RAM
#238Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s an equivalent app to make a comparison with, one from an OS company. But yeah, I still remember when a weather app would take 10 MB and I was complaining (1999)
10MB to tell me the weather from a remote server... Let's remember that the sprawling world of Legend of Zelda SNES (a Link to the Past), including all graphics, music, code and dialogue was 1MB.
Re: Windows 11's built-in Weather app wastes more than 1 GB of RAM
#239Earlier quoted context omitted.
10 MB is ridiculously overbloated. 1 MB or something in that vicinity should be more like it.
I think you guys on HN can be a bit out of touch maybe? On my linux machine (measured with tux-manager): nautilus 177 MB kitty 150 MB alacritty 107 MB mpv --idle --force-window 160 MB winit empty window + OpenGL context 100 MB tux-manager 69 MB hexchat 55 MB gnome-terminal 47 MB st 12 MB xterm 12 MB All these apps are what you would consider native, good apps. Written with Qt, GTK, some in low level langs like C\C++,…
Re: Windows 11's built-in Weather app wastes more than 1 GB of RAM
#240Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I think any empty Qt/GTK app eats 40 MB at least. Classic GTK is (much) better (RSS on Linux): GTK2 14 MB GTK3 24 MB Once it was decided that a desktop application must have fancy animation effects (like on smartphones) and be rendered completely on GPU things got very different: GTK4 98 MB
GTK used to be considered the bloated option along with QT. My first Linux box had 128MB of ram and it was screaming fast.