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The Egg Bandits Made a Thousand Times the Fine They Just Paid for Price Fixing

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Re: The Egg Bandits Made a Thousand Times the Fine They Just Paid for Price Fixing

#231
post #178
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, no. If some drug company killed a single person with a weird side effect that they buried, do you think it'll be discovered, much less prosecuted? The Sacklers got prosecuted because the opiod epidemic was huge, not because they passed some magical threshold so it's magically fine.

> The Sacklers got prosecuted because the opiod epidemic was huge Sure, but which one of them is in prison? Now compare the prison time an avg person would get for theft.

>Now compare the prison time an avg person would get for theft.

Probably 0 if it's the first offense.

Re: The Egg Bandits Made a Thousand Times the Fine They Just Paid for Price Fixing

#232
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The owners of corporations are mostly pension funds and the like.

Arguably that is worse. If a criminal misuses his own resources to commit crimes and then you take that away from them, it only affects him. The companies should be liquidated still. That would put the incentives in the correct order.

> If a criminal misuses his own resources to commit crimes and then you take that away from them, it only affects him.

There is certainly a case to be made here for “if it seems too good to be true…”, but realistically we are not going to impoverish the retired teachers of X state because X state chose poorly.

Re: The Egg Bandits Made a Thousand Times the Fine They Just Paid for Price Fixing

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What version of capitalism wouldn't have the problem of risky investments paying out more than safe ones? The people with better ROI are just going to outbid the ones with a worse ROI for their retirement spending so if you just invest it into T-Bills you'll do worse than inflation.

I'd say a better version is one where the average citizen does not have to *rely* on a boom-bust, unregulated financial system to secure their ability to survive in retirement. Through tax, fiscal and monetary policy it would be better if people could rely on government services and normal wages to get through their elder years.

Yeah, before capitalism you just worked until you died, or your children took care of you. That’s still an option, but you must have kids and they must like you.

Re: The Egg Bandits Made a Thousand Times the Fine They Just Paid for Price Fixing

#234
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's their job? It's not even limited to private insurance companies. Public health systems have lists of what is considered good value for money too, even if the treatments themselves are theoretically life saving. The US is the biggest market for new and rare drugs specifically because other countries consider the prices too high.

> That's their job? Denying their customers claims for healthcare coverage they are entitled to under the plans they pay for is the opposite of their job. Healthcare companies just keep doing that anyway because it makes them more money when their customers are too sick, stressed, exhausted, or eventually dead to fight the wrongfully denied claims. People die because of this, but the insurance companies don't care be…

>Denying their customers claims for healthcare coverage they are entitled to under the plans they pay for is the opposite of their job.

Can you provide some examples? The examples I heard of are never straightforward like "person has a broken hip, insurance refuses to pay for a hip replacement". There's always some complication like "the doctor thinks they need some special procedure/drug that costs extra". If it's in the area where there's a plausible judgement call to be made, I don't see how it's any different than a public healthcare system denying care due to cost reasons, even if theoretically taxpayers are "entitled" to some vague standard of care, and without the care the patient might actually die.

>United Healthcare alone was wrongfully denying claims over 90% of the time.

AFAIK that claim was claimed by plaintiffs with no supporting evidence, and denied by the defendants.

Re: The Egg Bandits Made a Thousand Times the Fine They Just Paid for Price Fixing

#235
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think that denying a specific treatment (justified or otherwise) is comparable murder for hire, then I don't think there's anything worth discussing between the two of us.

Says a lot about your morals that you think they are so far apart.

Morals? On Hacker news? But seriously, happy to see some pushback against such inane takes as that which you replied to.

Re: The Egg Bandits Made a Thousand Times the Fine They Just Paid for Price Fixing

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>all I heard was Biden-flation (or whatever they called it) was why we needed a new President. From whom did you only hear that? Newsmax? The Drudge Report?

Apparently vox populi. A majority of the U.S. must frequent those sites. (I'm beginning to think some people missed the sarcasm in my earlier posts.)

>(I'm beginning to think some people missed the sarcasm in my earlier posts.)

Yep. Given the forum and that you've been around here at least ten years, why would you think folks wouldn't take you at your word?

Be aware of Poe's Law[0]. Especially since there are way too many folks (I can think of at least a dozen or so off the top of my head) who would say the same thing unironically.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law

Re: The Egg Bandits Made a Thousand Times the Fine They Just Paid for Price Fixing

#238

I did not realize the egg crisis was found to be price fixing operation. As I recall during the whole thing the news was non-stop about how it was related to broad-based inflation, chicken culling for avian flu, etc. Seems like all that was a lie, or at least merely a half-truth.

The key factor that nearly everyone misses or perhaps, deliberately ignores, is that chicken eggs are worth their weight in gold to pharmaceutical manufacturers.

There's a significant number of pathogens, er I mean, vaccines, that are tested and/or cultured only inside of eggs, and for the seasonal flu vaccines, those pathogen factories are unfathomably gigantic in scale.

So essentially, any drain on the supply of chicken eggs for the consumer market may be attributed to the overwhelming and ever-increasing demand from the pharmaceutical industry to use up these eggs so that they can grow viruses, bacteria, and other nasties to, er, checks notes inoculate the population and keep the world safe for democracy. That's the ticket.

Re: The Egg Bandits Made a Thousand Times the Fine They Just Paid for Price Fixing

#239
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that internal investigations are acting as a substitute for actual criminal investigations. By definition if the investigations weren't made public I can't know about them, but you can look at someone like Andy Rubin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Rubin#Sexual_harassment_a... As far as I'm aware there was never any investigation from real police for him.

>I think that internal investigations are acting as a substitute for actual criminal investigations. And how does this work? Are prosecutors really like "oh ok, we won't do any investigating of our own then"? If so, who's more to blame, the companies doing the internal investigations, or the prosecutors for falling for it? If the police show up to a residence to investigate a domestic violence report, and then one of…

I think it is much simpler than what you’re describing.

Executive at BigCo does something bad. Normally people would report this to police and/or regulatory agency. Instead the company investigates itself to pretend they’re doing their due diligence so that there is a paper record, but with no intention of actually surfacing anything to the police.

Re: The Egg Bandits Made a Thousand Times the Fine They Just Paid for Price Fixing

#240
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's their job? Denying their customers claims for healthcare coverage they are entitled to under the plans they pay for is the opposite of their job. Healthcare companies just keep doing that anyway because it makes them more money when their customers are too sick, stressed, exhausted, or eventually dead to fight the wrongfully denied claims. People die because of this, but the insurance companies don't care be…

>Denying their customers claims for healthcare coverage they are entitled to under the plans they pay for is the opposite of their job. Can you provide some examples? The examples I heard of are never straightforward like "person has a broken hip, insurance refuses to pay for a hip replacement". There's always some complication like "the doctor thinks they need some special procedure/drug that costs extra". If it's i…

> The examples I heard of are never straightforward like "person has a broken hip, insurance refuses to pay for a hip replacement". There's always some complication like "the doctor thinks they need some special procedure/drug that costs extra".

There are a couple examples in the legal complaint (https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/class...) where the insurance company denied extremely typical things like physical therapy and skilled nursing facilities (the most common form of post-acute care). Nothing special there.

Here's another one for you:

Deirdre O'Reilly's college-age son, suffering a life-threatening anaphylactic allergic reaction, was saved by epinephrine shots and steroids administered intravenously in a hospital emergency room. His mother, utterly relieved by that news, was less pleased to be informed by the family's insurer that the treatment was "not medically necessary." (https://kffhealthnews.org/health-industry/denials-of-health-...)

Now, I don't have all the details of this case, but neither epinephrine shots or steroids are a special procedure/drug. That would be considered the standard treatment for life-threatening allergic reactions depending on the circumstances and how long ago this occurred.

I can't think of any reason why they'd ever deny epinephrine, and although steroids have fallen out of favor in recent years as standard treatment in every case, they are still called for in common situations like when epinephrine alone isn't doing the job, or when the reaction has triggered an asthma attack.

The article that came from links to https://www.npr.org/series/651784144/bill-of-the-month which is filled with all kinds of examples including one where the insurer eventually relented after phone calls, appeals were filed, a complaint was made to state agency, and letters were sent to elected officials ( https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2024/01/25/1226552...)

Social media is full of outrageous examples (https://www.buzzfeed.com/morgansloss1/stories-of-healthcare-...) but you're probably going to get the best examples from news segments like that Bill Of The Month series.

Evaluating these can be challenging. Even though many people are sharing their stories of how they've been screwed over online (and publicly exposing their private medical matters in the process), there's often a lack of hard details. Both government regulations intended to protect patients and insurance industry policy intended to protect the corporations can make independent verification of these complaints difficult.

The best source for examples will be lawsuits against insurance companies which can surface instances collected through the discovery process and used as evidence at trial, but that can take many years and may never come to light if those lawsuits get settled first with the victims and their surviving loved ones paid off and silenced.

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